Witness to strange events on night of murders

[VampireKen]

I've heard two things about the night of the murders that apparently someone noted as odd. The first is the house was all lit up that night. and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something. does anyone know who this person was who saw these things?

[msmart112]

The first is the house was all lit up that night.

From High Hopes…

Shortly before 3:45 a.m., a barmaid drove south on Ocean Avenue. The barmaid, Deborah Cosentino, worked at the Chatterbox Bar and Grill, a few blocks west of Ocean on Merrick Road – the latter artery a once major route that still winds through the South Shore of Long Island, pocked by gas stations, small businesses, bars and eating places.

But the shrine was not what caught Deborah Cosentino’s attention as she drove down the street. Set against the shadowed block like an electric torch, the DeFeo home blazed with light. All three floors were illuminated - every room seemed to be lit up. The house was dark-shingled with white trim, and the small, fan-shaped windows atop the Ocean Avenue side glared at the street like the eyes of an ebony jack-o-lantern.

and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something.

In this article…

http://www.asup-inc.org/amityvillerevisitedarticle.htm

…Rick Moran claims that he was told by a DEA agent who was watching the DeFeo house that Dawn left the house wearing a jacket and carrying a rifle.

Even though this alleged DEA agent had allegedly heard gunshots and allegedly seen muzzle flash prior to Dawn leaving the house…he did absolutely nothing about it.



Moran strongly implies that Dawn had killed everyone but Ronnie…left the house to discard the rifle…and returned only to be killed by Ronnie.

But since Dawn was killed with the same weapon as everyone else…how could Ronnie have killed her with a rifle that was now in the water?

[astonio]

I've heard two things about the night of the murders that apparently someone noted as odd. The first is the house was all lit up that night. and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something. does anyone know who this person was who saw these things?

What's the second thing? Or was it the Dawn scenario in your question?

[VampireKen]

The Dawn scenario was the second.

[astonio]

...gotcha!

[Brendan72]

I've heard two things about the night of the murders that apparently someone noted as odd. The first is the house was all lit up that night. and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something. does anyone know who this person was who saw these things?

I strongly recommend you read High Hopes as it is one of the most reliable books regarding the murders to date, when compared to Osuna's book and any claims Moran makes. Both individuals have ulterior motives towards the case which taints their perspective on things. However, if you choose to read Osuna's book then that is entirely up to you - just don't take his word as gospel.

The authors for High Hopes on the other hand have no apparent motive insofar as claiming the supernatural connection being a hoax is concerned. The Lutz haunting aspect is not mentioned directly at all in the book except at the end where it is mentioned that "there are no demons, just a house where tragic murders happened" or words to that effect. The only discernible motive on behalf of the authors as far as I can tell has nothing to do with the haunting at all but chronicling events leading up to and after the murders connected to the property, in fact they go out of their way to NOT mention the haunting.

In terms of time span, the book High Hopes was published in 1981, two years AFTER the movie The Amityville Horror and four years after the book of the same name being published, may have been a factor and if you choose to look at the chronology of the events one could speculate that the success of the book and film, from the strong media coverage of the Lutz haunting could have been a factor. However, on it's own merits the murder case in itself, had the haunting not occurred, was enough to make High Hopes a successful book - just as books relating to the Manson Murders and the Son of Sam killings did - both heavily publicised cases and subsequent trials were concerned. Incidentally the same psychiatrist to gave evidence for the defence at the DeFeo trial, Daniel Schwarz, also gave evidence in the Son of Sam trial.

High Hopes chronicles the incidents of the murder according to testimony and documentation, arrest and interrogation, admission of crimes by the accused, pre-trial events pertaining to prosecutorial preparation (interviews, evidence gathering procedures such as ballistics reports and autopsy reports, psychiatric reports etc), jury selection and actual trial, verdict and sentencing.

Happy reading!

[Howard64]

The first is the house was all lit up that night.

From High Hopes…

Shortly before 3:45 a.m., a barmaid drove south on Ocean Avenue. The barmaid, Deborah Cosentino, worked at the Chatterbox Bar and Grill, a few blocks west of Ocean on Merrick Road – the latter artery a once major route that still winds through the South Shore of Long Island, pocked by gas stations, small businesses, bars and eating places.

But the shrine was not what caught Deborah Cosentino’s attention as she drove down the street. Set against the shadowed block like an electric torch, the DeFeo home blazed with light. All three floors were illuminated - every room seemed to be lit up. The house was dark-shingled with white trim, and the small, fan-shaped windows atop the Ocean Avenue side glared at the street like the eyes of an ebony jack-o-lantern.

and someone saw Dawn walk out of the house in a hood and gloves with the rifle or something.

In this article…

http://www.asup-inc.org/amityvillerevisitedarticle.htm

…Rick Moran claims that he was told by a DEA agent who was watching the DeFeo house that Dawn left the house wearing a jacket and carrying a rifle.

Even though this alleged DEA agent had allegedly heard gunshots and allegedly seen muzzle flash prior to Dawn leaving the house…he did absolutely nothing about it.



Moran strongly implies that Dawn had killed everyone but Ronnie…left the house to discard the rifle…and returned only to be killed by Ronnie.

But since Dawn was killed with the same weapon as everyone else…how could Ronnie have killed her with a rifle that was now in the water?

So he claims that Dawn disposed of the rifle that later was used to kill her?

[Dan the Damned]

Yep. The claim is that Dawn disposed of the rifle. Despite NUMEROUS examples of Ronnie stating he shot and killed Dawn using the rifle.

In fact, Ronnie mentions struggling with Dawn over the rifle (and then using it against her) in his 1999 parole hearing.

[Brendan72]

Yep. The claim is that Dawn disposed of the rifle. Despite NUMEROUS examples of Ronnie stating he shot and killed Dawn using the rifle.

In fact, Ronnie mentions struggling with Dawn over the rifle (and then using it against her) in his 1999 parole hearing.

That theory would carry more credibility than Moran's claims that Dawn disposed of the weapon in the river and was later murdered by the same weapon.

[radiomixer]

Butch DeFeo has his own 'internet' of claims about who killed who that night.

Butch insists someone else got rid of the gun by throwing it off a pier.

The detectives gave him a piece of paper, Butch drew a map of where the rifle was, explaining someone had thrown the murder weapon off the pier -- and thanks to the map Butch drew, they found it almost right away. [Yet Butch claimed someone *else* threw it off a pier, and he was not aware of where it had been thrown, because he didn't see the person do it.]

Later Butch insisted that he only signed his name and date on the paper -- and that the detectives *themselves* drew the map AROUND on the otherwise 'blank' piece of paper Ronald Jr. had, for inexplicable reasons, signed and dated.

Then monkeys flew from his butt.

[Link the Labrador]

I wonder...did Butch even HAVE an alibi? Right from the get-go, he screwed himself up. This should go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at getting away with crime.

I wonder if Rick ever considered the abusrdity of Dawn throwing the rifle in the water, then the same thing being retrieved to kill her? Did Butch follow her or something?

This is what I don't buy about the Dawn is the killer thing= It seems like the only reason she would have wanted to do it was because she was jealous of Allison's beauty, which is kinda lame if you ask me. I mean, sure she may have had some kind of rivalry with Allison, but that's pretty typical among siblings.

Oi. Everything's just screwed up. >_<

[Howard64]

Then monkeys flew from his butt.

That should bring a chuckle:)

[Brendan72]

Then monkeys flew from his butt.

That should bring a chuckle:)

Don't insult the monkeys like that! lmao

[Howard64]

this monkey is smiling cause he DIDNT do any flying, he was at the spa that day.

[astonio]

Could I have been wrong all this time? I took the meaning of the house being lit up at that hour of the morning to indicate the time frame in which Butch was retrieving the spent cartridges. No?

[Tim]

I wonder...did Butch even HAVE an alibi? Right from the get-go, he screwed himself up. This should go down as one of the most pathetic attempts at getting away with crime.

I wonder if Rick ever considered the abusrdity of Dawn throwing the rifle in the water, then the same thing being retrieved to kill her? Did Butch follow her or something?

This is what I don't buy about the Dawn is the killer thing= It seems like the only reason she would have wanted to do it was because she was jealous of Allison's beauty, which is kinda lame if you ask me. I mean, sure she may have had some kind of rivalry with Allison, but that's pretty typical among siblings.

Oi. Everything's just screwed up. >_<

It's amazing how much he did screw himself.I'm reading High Hopes and it is all right there!

[surferguy72]

Personally I beleive Butch is responsible for the murders.I dont think Dawn was involved in anyway.Doesnt make sense why she would shoot everybody in a nightgown and jump right back into bed like nothing ever happened.seems to odd to me.

[Grim_Reaper]

yeah im reading High Hopes too and considerning how he went about his day after the killing to 'discover' them later on he could have easily gotten away with it if he was smart and didnt have a reputation for being a hotheat.

he just screwed himself up so many ways with so many different versions of what happened even before he was officially charged.

[surferguy72]

Like John List.He shot and killed his whole family almost exactly 3 years before.Nov 14 1971 I beleive.He was on the run for 2o years before the feds caught up with him.

[Jacobmarley1]

Speaking of witnesses to strange events......Wasn't Diane Ireland a witness to strange events on night of murders? Ronnie claims that she was outside her own house, in the back, with her lover, while her husband was asleep in bed. Butch says, "why didn't she call the police?" Then says its because she would have had to explain what she was doing outside at that hour (not that that's very hard to explain, so long as you lie).

Anyway, it was always a strange story, but since it came from DeFeo the Liar, nobody puts much credence to the story. But the story was told...I wonder how Mr. Ireland took that story. I wonder how Diane (if that's her first name, I might be wrong) Ireland took it. She could have sued DeFeo against his inheritance money, for slander!

[AutumnMaidenDove]

If Dawn was involved, wouldn't she have killed Ronnie and not the other way around? Why would she kill everyone else, give him the gun and trust that he wouldn't kill her?