Back when The Night The DeFeo's Died was published...

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:26 pm

bgf87
Registered User
Posts: 2
(4/28/02 10:45:21 pm)
Reply Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric,

Where was the picture of the shoes taken? For some reason, I was thinking the second floor hallway, but after looking closer at the pictures in your book, it seems that it was in the master bedroom, Allison's bedroom, or possibly Dawn's bedroom.

Any time frame for putting the gallery back up on your site?

Lastly, regarding the picture of the "seventh" victim, do you realize how much of a catch-22 your finding of (and subsequently disclosing your knowledge of) that picture is?

Because you chose not to include it in your book, I've read several posts/reviews attacking you, claiming that such a picture doesn't even exist.

But, if you HAD included that picture in your book, the same people would be attacking you for disrespecting the family!


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1091
(4/29/02 1:12:52 pm)
Reply
Re: Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're exactly right. On one hand they'd attack me for putting it in the book, yet on the other, they cry "where's the proof." I did not put the photo in was because I felt I already made my case against Suffolk County with regards to the amount of corruption present.

Regarding the shoes, I am not sure where in the actual room it was taken. Because of the carpet and debris around it, I am thinking it was probably taken in a closet.

As for the gallery, I plan on redesigning it this summer. Thanks.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 4/29/02 1:13:38 pm



anthony v
Registered User
Posts: 56
(4/29/02 10:51:17 pm)
Reply Re: Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric: Regarding the crime scene photos and any disrespect to the DeFeo family, I am sure that after what society in general has been exposed to over the last thirty years, crime scene photos are among the least shocking things people might see these days. This type of problem is something every researcher faces when writing about any grizzly murder these days. I recall in 1975 when Geraldo Rivera first broadcast Robert Groden's enhanced version of the famed Zapruder film on ABC-TVs Good Night America! If it were not for the showing of that 22 second amateur 8-mm film, the world would have never known what was witnessed that day in 1963. Yet ABC waas willing to show that infamous film knowing that the public should know and see what happened that day in Dallas. That one show eventually brought about the 1977 Senate Hearings on both the JFK and King assassinations as it turned out. Sometimes, during the search for the truth, especially when discussing a murder, sensitivity has to be put aside in order for facts to be demonstrated and validated more effectively. Turn on Court TV, Discovery, or HBO's Autopsy series and you'll find that even the most disturbing crime scene photos can later serve a purpose for years after they were taken. If researchers are unwilling to offer up such evidence (even if they are disturbing) then that researcher fails to some degree in proving their case. If you saw an actual photo that could have proved that a body was, in fact, moved (which I believe you did see), you probably did make a mistake by not including that photo in your book. In fact, since this a major disclosure and only briefly introduced, I had trouble understanding why it was mentioned at all on the very last page! While I respect the work you've done, it was not a particularly smart decision to offer up a bombshell of information (EVIDENCE) without presenting it extensively and effectively to solidify your observations and validate your dramatic claim. Jesus, you gave the Lutz story an entire chapter when this major discovery was reduced to a mere three paragraphs! Investigators research lesser crimes for decades just to be able to come across a discovery lesser than this and you introduced it seem like an extensive footnote at best. I hope that if or when a revised edition comes out, more will be included on what you've discovered after all these years! Man, what a discovery!!!


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1092
(4/30/02 12:06:58 am)
Reply
Re: Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I really struggled with the choice to include more graphical photos in the book. Some of the photos I wanted to include showed the inconsistent wounds of Big Ronnie, the blood pattern on Louise DeFeo's mattress showing her body position was wrong and the mystery shot I discuss in the afterword. Indeed, there may come a time that I place the photo on my Web site, at least an edited version or I will make sure there are numerous warning notices about before viewers can see the real one. I am not sure yet, though.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


anthony v
Registered User
Posts: 57
(4/30/02 1:06:48 am)
Reply Re: Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric: Forgive me if I sounded somewhat harsh about those photos. It was inconsiderate of me. Believe me when I say I would normally have no real morbid curiosity to see those grizzly photos. However, that bombshell at the end of the book hit a lot of readers hard due to what you claimed you saw in crime scene photos! In fact, I had to go back a few days later after finishing the book to re-read those last three paragraphs again! I believe a warning would be the proper thing to do if those photos are ever presented. If, in fact, what you saw is viewable in photos, your research did break down the wall of lies and corruption that were built around this case over the last quarter of a century just as you said.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1094
(4/30/02 12:46:48 pm)
Reply
Re: Pictures

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No problem, Anthony. Believe me when I say I can understand your desire to see and know everything about the case.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:41 am

sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 144
(4/27/02 9:48:04 am)
Reply Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New day, new thread, new topic.

I hope these questions don't come across as "accusations" today! Maybe they do, but that isn't my intention... I guess I'm being a little forceful because you confidently hyped the book "the final word" in the matter, and I thought you'd welcome the odd person trying to query things.

Anyway, this is just my opinion, and I welcome yours...

Ric wrote: "don't forget there are 13 pages of endnotes in the back for your referencing pleasure."

Cool, but just having Endnotes does not make you more professional or elevate your work over previous Amityville books. I'm looking now and most of them seem to be newspaper quotes, which no one is disputing anyway. Apart from the Davidge affidavits from 1990 they are not adding up to much so far... Some things are good, like placing Butch at the dealership at 2:30pm. I'll give you that. Doesn't touch on whether he killed anyone though, does it?

Where your Endnotes should be adding substance to your argument is on pages 153-165 where you say, "Combined with the photos, the Suffolk County laboratory reports were more than enough to determine the validity of the true story that Butch DeFeo finally revealed to me."

But on pages 153-165 there are no Endnotes.

So, to clear up:

* Who told you there was "two sets of laboratory reports"?

* Every conclusion you come to regarding the "Items" could be construed as hearsay - Where is proof that Dawn threw the hairbrush? Where is the proof that rags lying around were used by Bobby Kelske to "clean up"? - Sure, Ronnie could have told you all this happened first, then later you view the photo's and say "bingo!", but didn't it occur to you he knew what was is in those pictures and was leading you on? He's had a quarter of century to build a story around them, y'know.

And moving on a bit...

* Page 206 : To whom did Steven Hicks say that *Barry Springer* shot the gun into his floorboard, and not Ronnie?


As I've said, I'm only half way through the book, so any of this becomes clear later on let me know.

Cheers.

Edited by: sherbetbizarre at: 4/27/02 9:50:39 am


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1081
(4/27/02 12:52:33 pm)
Reply
Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know, Sherb, if you read (and finish) the book most of your questions would be answered. And no, the End Notes do not consist mainly of newspaper quotes. Regarding Hicks's statement, that's direct testimony from the DeFeo trial.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 145
(4/27/02 1:18:21 pm)
Reply Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you be so kind as to answer my questions that are not answered in the book?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1082
(4/27/02 1:24:12 pm)
Reply
Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After you read the book completely...and if I am able to...yes, I will answer your questions as best I can.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 146
(4/27/02 1:43:13 pm)
Reply Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, no further questions your honor...


...for now


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 147
(4/27/02 5:57:08 pm)
Reply Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I gotta say the Jacob Siegfried section, pages220-224, is the best bit of "new evidence" so far... especially the Frank Boyd statement where he mentions the melting of the pistol. Now I was gonna ask you about that, because it was only mentioned earlier in the book... and here it answers my question. So I take your point about reading the whole thing...

Now if i wanted to check anything for myself, it would be this. But I assume it's not part of the paper work in the People Vs DeFeo trial? How would I go about obtaining the Siegfried statements?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1083
(4/27/02 8:33:39 pm)
Reply
Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Depending on how receptive the new Suffolk District Attorney is, you may be able to view the entire case folder at their office.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 148
(4/27/02 9:02:25 pm)
Reply Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
They're a bit fussy are they..?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1084
(4/27/02 10:08:52 pm)
Reply
Re: Endnotes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fussy?? Not at all. I made sure I had written authentication to protect my arse.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:47 am

sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 171
(5/8/02 7:38:51 am)
Reply A Fruitless Search..?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric, I missed the radio show where you explained Mike Brigante pulled some mafia strings to make Gerri’s marriage and divorce papers vanish. It’s mentioned briefly in the book, but I’m wondering whether any attempt was made to track them down, or did you know it was a fruitless search from the outset?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1133
(5/8/02 11:51:24 am)
Reply
Re: A Fruitless Search..?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was warned from the onset that many things, including the marriage license, had disappeared. Yet, I was determined not to give up, so no matter what the item was I continued searching for it, including the marriage license.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 173
(5/8/02 2:41:51 pm)
Reply Re: A Fruitless Search..?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What about the documentation that was gonna be in the book? Is that now saved for the on-line gallery?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1137
(5/8/02 3:23:13 pm)
Reply
Re: A Fruitless Search..?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I only had space for 30 photos, so the ones I chose were the ones I felt were most important. As for documentation that is why I cited various materials throughout the book and included several pages of end notes. Regarding the gallery, I am not sure what is or isn't going to be up there yet.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 176
(5/8/02 4:06:20 pm)
Reply Re: A Fruitless Search..?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, but I do feel a slight dissapointment that the documentation isn't in there after all the hype that is was going to be.

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1921

Post by msmart112 » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:00 am

Thanks again Sherb for posting all of these!
Ric Osuna wrote:I was warned from the onset that many things, including the marriage license, had disappeared.
From chapter eight of TNDD…

According to sources, there was a meeting that took place at a race track between representatives of the Colombo and Genovese crime families. Since the Genovese family had the best hit men around, it is reported that the Colombos wanted to use one of these hit men to kill Butch. Although the request was denied, the Genovese family agreed to assist with getting rid of any trace that Butch and Geraldine had been married. After all, Geraldine’s family and friends were concerned about her safety as much as Michael Brigante Sr. was.

This alleged meeting fit perfectly with what my Suffolk County deep throat source told me. He said, “Money and power can make anything disappear.”


…for months in 2002 (and again in 2003 on a different board) Ric and Gerri would use the “mob destroyed everything” claim when attempting to explain why there was no record of a marriage between Ronnie and Geraldine.

Yet…going back to the Introduction of TNTDD…

After weeks of talking on the phone, I finally decided that it was time to meet her face to face. So at the end of July 2000, I ventured to New York.

To help alleviate any concerns about her authenticity, she immediately showed me a sheriff’s identification card once I arrived. Mrs. DeFeo claimed she had obtained the ID through fingerprinting and a valid marriage license.


…so if the mob had destroyed EVERY record of a marriage between Ronnie and Geraldine…how was Geraldine able to produce a valid marriage license when she obtained the ID card in 1985? :roll:

And if the mob somehow missed the copy that Geraldine allegedly used to obtain the ID card…why didn’t Geraldine allow Ric to use that copy in his “book”? :roll:
Image

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Mar 26, 2007 7:44 pm

…so if the mob had destroyed EVERY record of a marriage between Ronnie and Geraldine…how was Geraldine able to produce a valid marriage license when she obtained the ID card in 1985? :roll:
EXCELLENT point! One I'm sure we missed at the time :oops:

sherbetbizarre wrote:Originally Ric said the ID Card would be the first piece of proof... but it turned out the only piece of proof.


Back to the year changes - When Ric said 1969, it was pointed out that Ronnie was a minor, and therefore could not have married in New Jersey without his parents permission.

He replied, "They did not get married in the State of New Jersey"

However, when that forum was long gone, Ric simply added a year and had them elope in NJ!
Ok, I didn't quite remember this correctly... "Old Billy" assumed they married in NY, but still, Ric DID change the date!

Image

So here's another thing - "MRS D is trying to dig up her divorce papers" - these could still have existed, because the mob "hid" her identity before any divorce.


...So Ric wouldn't go and say Gerri was looking for her old marraige certificate, would he?

Image

oops! :lol:

User avatar
msmart112
Amityville_Member
Posts: 1921

Post by msmart112 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:19 pm

Ric Osuna wrote:She is looking for her old marriage certificate and when found she will give it to me to post.
I guess she never found it?

From here…

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/geraldine.html

“Although there are plenty of first-hand accounts and documentation to show that Geraldine had a relationship with the convicted mass murderer before his family's deaths in November 1974, a marriage certificate cannot be located. Therefore, even if it comes to pass that she only had a common-law relationship with Butch DeFeo, her relationship is no less important.”

:roll:
Image

User avatar
Dan the Damned
Lost Soul
Posts: 11818

Post by Dan the Damned » Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:34 pm

From here…

http://www.amityvillemurders.com/geraldine.html

“Although there are plenty of first-hand accounts and documentation to show that Geraldine had a relationship with the convicted mass murderer before his family's deaths in November 1974, a marriage certificate cannot be located. Therefore, even if it comes to pass that she only had a common-law relationship with Butch DeFeo, her relationship is no less important.”
What an odd statement. "Her relationship is no less important"?!? Its not the importance of the relationship, Ric, but rather it's authenticity! We don't care if it was a common law marriage, or a church wedding - we just don't believe they even knew each other back then!

And what does Ric mean by "even if it comes to pass that she only had a common-law relationship"? Geraldine said they were legally married, and had a marriage license. Is Ric basically saying, "even if Geraldine is lying through her teeth about being married to Butch, that doesn't mean she can't be trusted"???

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:14 am

On the same day Gerri was "looking for her old marraige certificates", below she says, "no you won't find them because they dissappered by the efforts of one man" :?

Image
Image

As some of you will gather, this "email" was obviously ghost-written by Ric.

Littlelukey
These Things Have Always Puzzled Me
Posts: 1673

Post by Littlelukey » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:27 am

Back somehwere through this thread somewhere it was said that the " mob " destroyed the records of marrage ?

Im just wondering why the Mob would go to all the trouble of destroying something through records to keep it quiet when they could just as quickly and effortlessly " hit " someone ...

just wondering...

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Mar 29, 2007 4:46 am

I think the "one man" they refer to is Michael Brigante Snr. - they claim he pulled some mafia strings to keep her "hidden", and out of the media spotlight.

Ric also claims Weber and the prosecutor Sullivan also went along with this.

Why would a prosecutor agree to such a thing? What utter nonsense!

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:08 pm

She has been hidden for the last 25 years
:lol: :lol: :lol: Brilliant!

Exactly what was the Sheriff's ID card supposed to have proven?

From the looks of this site...

http://www.ongov.net/Sheriff/idcards.html

...obtaining a Sheriff's ID isn't in the least a difficult task...for anyone.

Note the bottom line... "Person's using a married name must provide a marriage license".

Yet, wasn't Geraldine still married to Gerald Gates at the time she acquired the Sheriff's ID card? :shock:

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Mar 29, 2007 12:28 pm

WARNING: Making false statements is punishable as a Class A Misdemeanor, pursuant to Section 210.45 of the New York State Penal Law.
:lol:

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:00 pm

kibblybibster
Registered User
Posts: 1
(5/12/02 9:37:38 am)
Reply To Ric

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am still reading your book but I do have one question. How wasn't Michael Brigante able to influence the police into dropping or at least lightening the case over Butch if he had s much influence with them?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1142
(5/13/02 1:53:43 am)
Reply
Re: To Ric

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This will have to be quick, but if you recall I wrote Brigante had more influence with city cops rather than in Suffolk.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Mar 30, 2007 4:09 pm

kibblybibster
Registered User
Posts: 2
(5/12/02 1:24:38 pm)
Reply Defeo Story Explanation Please

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please see this site:

http://amityvilletruth.freeservers.com/newsday.htm

Can anyone explain to me any reason why Defeo would keep changing his story with (just the way I read it, of course) Geraldine backs him up.

Please help. I'm confused.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1146
(5/13/02 2:03:51 am)
Reply
Re: Defeo Story Explanation Please

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not everything in newspapers are accurate. In fact, Geraldine refused to take the stand and lie under oath for Butch.

Butch changes his story whenever it suits him. Sometimes it's for money, other times it is for fame and even on occasions he does it just to hurt others. I feel it has to do with the fact that he is so bitter over his fate and the fact that he was never afforded a fair trial. But that aside, I knew when I wrote my book that a person cannot simply take Butch at face value. That is why I gathered the documentation needed to substantiate some of his claims.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:11 am

zzvampy wrote:Exactly what was the Sheriff's ID card supposed to have proven?

From the looks of this site...

http://www.ongov.net/Sheriff/idcards.html

...obtaining a Sheriff's ID isn't in the least a difficult task...for anyone.
Image

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:14 pm

sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 179
(5/11/02 1:30:09 pm)
Reply Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who exactly was Gerladine "hidden" from, when Gerard Sullivan, William Weber and Herman Race all knew of her existance?


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 180
(5/11/02 5:41:52 pm)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucy Burkin's testimony is interesting.

Page 259: "testified that both Big Ronnie and Butch had left work amicably on the Monday prior to the murders at 5:45 p.m." which blows a hole in the kid seeing them fight after school.

Good.

Now onto the following day...

Page 260: "In fact, The New York Times reported on November 15, 1974 that “Mr. DeFeo Sr. reported for work on Tuesday morning [November 12] along with his son Ronald Jr.” The sources, according to the article, were several associates and employees from the dealership.
Of course, this also contradicted the claim by the prosecution, which the defense had no choice but to work with, that Butch DeFeo stayed home from work Tuesday because of stomach pains (...) if the truth that Butch was in New Jersey on Tuesday evening had surfaced, then so would his marriage to Geraldine. And that would also mean the real story might have come out
."

Are you saying Lucy Burkin wasn't asked about Tuesday 12th in the trial at all?


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 182
(5/12/02 11:56:46 am)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric wrote:

"As for Gerri's marriage license, I never said she had 22+ documents disappear, neither did she. All she said was she married Butch a couple of
times and then some
- "

A couple?

A COUPLE??


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1143
(5/13/02 1:56:51 am)
Reply
Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, a couple. I wrote that in the book. Why so surprised? Haven't you heard of people taking their wedding vows or getting married on more than one occasion? The Lutzes did. Or were you not aware of that?

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 184
(5/13/02 12:33:57 pm)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What you wrote in your book is wrong if Geraldine says:

"Maybe that is all the confusion because Butch was always lying about his age.
Butch and i were married 4 times 3 alway's on my birthday in july
."

Check the Final Draft thread.

Yeah I'm surpised, 4 TIMES is not "a couple"


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1148
(5/13/02 10:23:27 pm)
Reply
Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
God knows you've been itching to say that for a long time, right Sherb. Unlike you, I have very little time to hang out at these forums. Last night I chose to quickly answer your question rather than ignore it. So I apologize if I said a couple when I should have said a few. From now on, I'll make sure not to answer your questions in a rush.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 185
(5/13/02 10:29:01 pm)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Yes, a couple. I wrote that in the book."

And now you admit it's at least 4?
Well that's not in the book is it?

Nor does it say how many times you've visited Ronnie like you told me it would.

Does that mean you only saw him the once?


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 188
(5/14/02 4:24:44 pm)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
fred from Amityville Truth
The Point Posted 5-14-2002 19:46

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've read all the Sherb off the other forum. Ric could have actually ignored all of these questions but you asked quite a lot of questions and he answered them ALL.
Fred... He's letting you down with this one...


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1152
(5/14/02 6:55:25 pm)
Reply
Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You know Sherb, I don't live at home with my parents, but rather have a sizeable mortgage. I also have a lovely wife and family, so I am sorry if I don't have all the time in the world to babysit you and your questions. I work full time and I am often out of the office at different intervals throughout the day. So chill out and know that there is more to life than just Amityville and these discussion boards. I have answered your questions as quickly and concisely as possible, yet you show such little gratitude. Maybe you can devote each and every day to Amityville, but I cannot.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.

Edited by: ric112 at: 5/14/02 6:56:05 pm



sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 190
(5/14/02 7:00:26 pm)
Reply Re: Hidden

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I can wait, sure...

But I wait and nothing happens.

Thing is Ric, you shouldn't have to THINK about these answers.

You should know them inside out.

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Apr 04, 2007 5:17 pm

kibblybibster
Registered User
Posts: 8
(5/15/02 12:18:05 pm)
Reply Hans Holzer's letter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi

Has anyone seen the scanned in letter on the Amityville truth board with the letter from Has Holzer regarding a telephone "a young lady" who telephoned him enquiring about what she would get if she was Mrs Ronald Defeo Jr. What is the story and is it the truth or just another story?

Your thoughts anyone please.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1155
(5/15/02 12:43:51 pm)
Reply
Re: Hans Holzer's letter

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hans Holzer may have been confused since DeFeo married another woman in 1994 while he was in prison. You have to understand that it was an impossibility for anyone, let alone Geraldine, to marry a prisoner with a life sentence until 1989 when a federal judge struck down the law that forbid marriages to lifers. And Hans Holzer told me when I tape-recorded his interview that he knew Butch and Geraldine were married prior to the murders...he even tried to bring it out in his book during his interview with DeFeo.

Nothing is inexplicable to the rational mind...only unexplained.

zzvampy
The Black Bralia
Posts: 2521
Location: PA

Post by zzvampy » Wed Apr 04, 2007 6:55 pm

You have to understand that it was an impossibility for anyone, let alone Geraldine, to marry a prisoner with a life sentence until 1989
:lol:

So when was it that Ronnie and Geraldine divorced?

I mean, after all, they were married prior to the murders according to Ric. :roll:

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Post by sherbetbizarre » Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:46 pm

sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 149
(4/30/02 4:48:19 pm)
Reply TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I finished the book. Interesting stuff... Ric, when you first began investagating the murders, I seem to remember you thought the bodies were all in the same position because it could have been "a sign of restraint"... You were thoerizing something along those lines, I believe.

As it's not in the book, I'm wondering a) If I'm remembering this correctly, or b) what made you think that and then change your mind.
Cheers


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1096
(4/30/02 7:20:15 pm)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I vaguely recall what you are referring to. I had seen a crime-scene photo where there were strips of fishing line cut that made me wonder if they were not used as restraints. Later, however, through more photos and testimony I deduced that not all the bodies were shot in bed, etc, etc...

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 150
(5/2/02 8:50:05 am)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers,

When you first met Ronnie in Nov 2000, how much of the story did you know in advance?

Did Geraldine tell you everything or did you hear it from Butch himself?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1101
(5/2/02 10:42:02 am)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I knew large bits of it, but, of course, he filled me in on the rest. Mrs. D only told me what she knew from her conversations with Butch.

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 5/2/02 10:53:18 am



sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 151
(5/2/02 3:04:53 pm)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I guess, having known Geraldine for around 5 months, she convinced Ronnie you were worthy of being told the real story?

In the book, where it says you "tested" Geraldine for "the first few weeks", did that include her meeting with the Lutzes/father Ray. Or did you find out about that at a later date?

I'm just wondering co's you never brought up that she met George and kathy and until some months later, around September 2000 I think.

Maybe she held that back, didn't want to bombard you with a load of stuff at once kind of thing...


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1103
(5/3/02 12:22:14 pm)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, she informed him I was interested in the truth.

Regarding the testing, we stuck mainly to the DeFeo murders, but there were things about the Lutzes that she told me, including that she and William Weber met with them prior to moving into the house. This was all in June/July 2000. The only reason I did not reveal it until around September 2000 was that I wanted to meet her first hand which wasn't until August. There are some other reasons, but I'll save those for another time.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 153
(5/3/02 12:48:54 pm)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Way into August of that year, you were still saying you were not ready to call the haunting a hoax.

So although Geraldine told you she's met the Lutzes pre-112 you, were you still a bit sceptical of her?


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1104
(5/3/02 2:28:00 pm)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I cannot recall my exact mind set, except that I wanted to be very sure before changing my view. After all, I was duped by George Lutz into thinking he was credible and honest because I gave him too much credit and relied on his word alone.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 155
(5/3/02 3:00:49 pm)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After meeting Geraldine you would say:

[image]

And here, on the same day, where you're not even convinced that Weber "conspired" with the lutzes:

[image]

As all this was written after your meeting with Gerri, can you recall what "evidence" was found, that made you realise she told you the truth?

Edited by: sherbetbizarre at: 5/15/02 1:58:42 pm


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1105
(5/3/02 3:22:49 pm)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your links, Sherb, are pointing to your desktop, so they do not appear in your message. However, I stand behind the information in my book and not the information in any alleged posts. September 2000 was more than a year and a half ago, so a lot has happened since then. What's in my book is my final stance after my investigation. So keep that in mind from this point forward since I will not keep explaining past posts.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 156
(5/3/02 3:31:14 pm)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I got 'em working now - the "Image" option is too fiddly! :P

Well, if you go by the book it says "After weeks of talking on the phone, I finally decided that it was time to meet (Geraldine) face to face. So at the end of July 2000, I ventured to New York."

It kind of implies that the meeting satisfied everything you needed to know about her.


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1106
(5/3/02 4:05:59 pm)
Reply
Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oh yes, I was convinced, but I wanted even more information to convince the public. After all, not everyone was going to be able spend 40 hours a week on the phone with Mrs. D nor talk to her in person to see she was legitimate.

The Truth Will Set You Free...



SarahTH
Registered User
Posts: 1
(5/3/02 4:42:17 pm)
Reply question
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Everyone,

Found you on ezboard, had a question.
Ric, why do you call Ronnie's ex-wife Mrs. Defeo and Mrs. D when she says she is remarried now? Did she keep the Defeo name and not take on her new husband's name?

Sarah


sherbetbizarre
Registered User
Posts: 157
(5/3/02 4:42:26 pm)
Reply Re: TA DA!! Finished the book...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok, fair enough. It just seems weird that you would tell us you still believed in the Lutzes, to a degree, while all along you knew different.

Edited by: sherbetbizarre at: 5/7/02 8:09:26 pm


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1108
(5/3/02 4:51:59 pm)
Reply
Re: question

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Part of it has to deal with that she will always be a DeFeo. After all, her daughter is Butch's child. Part of it for simplicity. Part of it for privacy.

:)

The Truth Will Set You Free...


SarahTH
Registered User
Posts: 2
(5/3/02 4:59:32 pm)
Reply thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the reply, it just seems that you are trying to misrepresent her. She is no longer a defeo, she has a new name and husband and I think that is disprespecting him a great deal when you say her last name is defeo. Why not just call her geraldine or whatever. It seems like you are trying to make people believe she is a defeo when she isn't. Also, it seems odd you choose your name to be ric112, isn't 112 the house address in amityville? Why would you want to associate your name with a house of slaughter and murder?

Thanks,
Sarah


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1109
(5/3/02 5:30:56 pm)
Reply
Re: thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What's odd is that you make such a big deal out of a username. 112 was simply a distinguishing characteristic rather than say RicTH. And if you think the 108 Ocean Avenue is only a house of "slaughter and murder" then you are gravely mistaken. It is a beautiful home that has a tragic past. Yes, I love that home and would be fortunate enough to ever own it. Regarding Mrs. DeFeo, I am sorry you choose to see that I am disrespecting her when, in all actuality, I respect her greatly.

The Truth Will Set You Free...


MRSD112
Registered User
Posts: 73
(5/3/02 6:28:57 pm)
Reply Re: thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I choose to use Mrs.D for legal and personal reasons
I have had to do thing's for Butch for over 27 year's now .
He has been in my life for over 30 years.
I have kept in touch with many of our old friend's
My husband is in no way disrespected by this.
He is a good man and understands that i gave my word to Butch's dying grandfather never to turn my back on Butch if he ever needed my help.
I find it very silly that it would concern any one what name i use on a bord?
My husband sometime's read's the board himself.
The book was discussed with my husband ,and he knew how much i would be involved.
He gave his blessing to me and his absolute respect to Ric Osuna


ric112
Moderator
Posts: 1110
(5/3/02 6:46:30 pm)
Reply
Re: thanks

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
...as do I respect him. :)

The Truth Will Set You Free...

Edited by: ric112 at: 5/3/02 6:46:52 pm

User avatar
ozz
Minister Of Logic
Posts: 92

Post by ozz » Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:02 pm

In chat, several people were there and we were talking to Gerri and I was asking her about a discrepency between what she had said previously about her wedding with Ronnie and what Ric's new book said. Now, I forget the discrepency. I believe it had to do with a conflict in the dates. Nevertheless, she admitted then that she had been married to him 4 times despite what Ric wrote in his book. She said Ric's book was wrong on that point. I made it clear to ask her if these were all legal marriages and she made it clear that she was legally married to him 4 different times. If anyone else has any clarification on that conversation or were there yourself, feel free to chime in.

ozz


sherbetbizarre wrote:Not to mention Gerri and Ronnie in Newsday in 1986...

http://amityvilletruth.freeservers.com/newsday.htm
Once the child was born, they claim, marriage followed. "My father just about forced me into doing it," DeFeo said. The marriage supposedly took place on Oct. 17, 1974, at the Garfield Grant Hotel in Long Branch, not far from her home in Elberon, N.J. Geraldine produced a photocopy that she says is their marriage certificate, but no such certificate is on file in the records maintained by the City of Long Branch or the State of New Jersey. The city magistrate whose name appears on the photocopy, Thomas J. Baldino Jr., said in a telephone interview that he left the city's service in 1964 and stopped acting as a justice of the peace. "I did not perform any {marriages} after 1964," he said.
So we have 1974, 1969 and finally 1970 :)

When Ozz questioned Gerri about all these dates, she told him they were ALL true - and that she renewed her vows to Ronnie EVERY YEAR! And on the same day - her birthday.

The petition to get the crime scene pics removed from the History Channel is interesting... but in hindsight Ric simply wanted to be the first to show them to the world :roll:

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9688
Contact:

Re: Back when The Night The DeFeo's Died was published...

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:39 am

ric112
Moderator
Posts: 823
(3/17/02 12:00:33 am)

Welcome Back to the Amityville Murders Forum
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's been nearly a year, but we're back. As most of you know, my book, titled The Night the DeFeos Died: Reinvestigating the Amityville Murders, is now out. Yay! It was a long, long haul, but I am sure that you will see, after reading it of course, that it was worth it. Visit http://www.thenightthedefeosdied.com for further info. Now on to the rules...
Image
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Post Reply