Shattered Hopes III. "Ash" For Your Wednesday!

[jimmysmokes]

Aren't you a bit interested to know how he ends this thing?

We know how he ends it - it's in the TV version.

Basically he concludes Ronnie acted alone. Which was not what Shattered Hopes set out to do. So you end up with hours and hours of "multi-murderer" talk and reenactments, which are rendered worthless because at some point Ryan changed his mind.

Yeah that is correct but there is a part 2 to that fraud/forensics (whatever it was called) that he didn't release yet? That is what I was referring to, even though it might not contain anything "exciting" by his standards? I'm unsure how that first part of the third one ended since I last saw it?

"Anyway, let's get back to selling some dvd's now." Classic line from the past.

[sherbetbizarre]

Yeah that is correct but there is a part 2 to that fraud/forensics (whatever it was called) that he didn't release yet? That is what I was referring to, even though it might not contain anything "exciting" by his standards?

I think the "forensics" section is a big reason why he's never finished it.

Initially, the forensics section sounded like it was going to "prove" Ronnie had help... Now it's just going to prove what was already established back '74/'75?

How is he going to edit it, to show there was enough doubt to justify the 7-8 hour running time? The only doubt came from Ric and Geraldine, not the original court case. And he's essentially calling her liar with his new ending - yet he installed her as a major talking head in Parts 1 and 2. How can he justify that?

The whole thing is a mess, he realized it, and quit.

[jimmysmokes]

I would assume the tactic was to make a "selling" point with hours of reenactments (like u said), drama, and "new" info? Like today's "reality" shows, introduce a storyline, plot, characters, keep you tuned in for weeks, (in his case years), then dump a twist in the end that ruins the whole show?

And where does this leave that gun that he found as new evidence to support, umm, what? Another or other shooters? Did Ron use two guns? This always baffled me what he was trying to establish with this, then saying he acted alone at the end of that edited show? I always thought he might have been better at selling his documentary had he stayed on course with the "original" storyline/book whatever one wants to call it? Why introduce another gun, multiple shooters, then run and say he acted alone?

I think maybe his ego got the better of him during editing or the filming and he wanted to make it look like he had something new to offer but shot himself in the foot (no pun intended) with what he released?

[sherbetbizarre]

I would assume the tactic was to make a "selling" point with hours of reenactments (like u said), drama, and "new" info? Like today's "reality" shows, introduce a storyline, plot, characters, keep you tuned in for weeks, (in his case years), then dump a twist in the end that ruins the whole show?

It certainly wasn't planned that way. Ric Osuna was co-director for the first two years, and the website stated the doc was going to follow his book in "proving" there were multiple killers.

Then the website went dark for a few weeks, and when it came back on, Ric had been removed as co-director, with no reason given. My hunch is that Ryan realized none of the interviews they had backed up Ric's claims - plus the Criminology students he hired all said Ronnie acted alone - so Ryan changed tact and Ric quit in disgust.

And where does this leave that gun that he found as new evidence to support, umm, what?

Exactly!

Ryan didn't hire the dive team until after Part 1 came out, long after Ric had left, and after telling this forum "you don't know what my findings are...". So clearly he had come to the conclusion that he was going to end with Ronnie acting alone... but an extra gun only makes sense if you have extra accomplices!

I guess he felt he still needed a big ending (rather than a straight up anti-climax) and finding that half-a-gun is now it...

[jimmysmokes]

Your hunch is interesting but why did he then proceed to continue with what he clearly knew was a deception? And to what end? Most of that doc is wrapped around the book and he includes the interviews to support it until the end? Is it possible he got to far into it, no turning back? A disagreement between him and Ric?

I'm wondering what he might have offered if that diving team had not fished up that remaining fragment of gun? But the (his) "conclusion" ending with Ronnie acting alone still makes no sense? Also, at the end he puts in the interview piece with Ronnie stating "they found the other gun that killed my mother"? And let's not forget Ryan's own words!

https://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/02/27 ... r-murders/

He totally contradicts himself, his theories and ending! What is the ending? It's clear he doesn't know himself...

[sherbetbizarre]

Your hunch is interesting but why did he then proceed to continue with what he clearly knew was a deception?

First off, he knew it was a deception from Day 1. Same with Ric. Neither believed in Geraldine's story, they just wanted to rewrite history to feed their ego's.

Is it possible he got to far into it, no turning back?

Pretty much - he would have shot hours of footage with the actors, and I guess didn't want to waste it.

A disagreement between him and Ric?

Possible. Or the disagreement came because Ryan realized it was harder to concoct the deception in documentary form. And told Ric it wasn't working.

I'm wondering what he might have offered if that diving team had not fished up that remaining fragment of gun?

Well, exactly..! Guess he was desperate and got lucky... but even his initial enthusiasm for that discover was beginning to wane.

Also, at the end he puts in the interview piece with Ronnie stating "they found the other gun that killed my mother"?

Ah yeah, his other act of desperation was getting the Ronnie interview - after years of saying, "I don't want him, he keeps changing his story."

I think part of the deal was to get Ronnie to say on camera a handgun was involved, and we've heard up to his story where him and his sister are ascending the stairs, with Dawn holding the handgun...

[Rokiisun]

I haven’t been following Shatter Hopes for a few years. I thought they had stopped the project completely to work on other projects and instead of buying the DVDs they can now be bought and streamed online?

Did Ric choose to interview Ronnie afterall?

[sherbetbizarre]

Did Ric choose to interview Ronnie afterall?

Ryan did, yeah. Ric had long gone...