Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3101

Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:36 am

scipio-USMC wrote:
BooshaGirl wrote:That's fine, but I choose to believe my fully-functioning and mentally competent friend who had firsthand knowledge than any speculation--even if it is based on evidence. He was there...he lived it...he knew--and he shared it with me. This is exactly why he doesn't want his name to be known to people on this board (but answered our questions as a favor to me) ...because of the bickering and name-calling and bloated egos.
There are other possibilites that you do not want to face.

How do you know for sure he was so involved with them as he claims? Unless you were there as well or know others who can confirm it he could be exaggering his relationship. Indeed just look at how Geraldine has made up being in places she wasn't.

Unless his name is revealed there is no way to ask people to confirm whether he in fact was such good friends and he claims and how often he was around.

If it could be established he was there we need to have specific examples of what he supposedly wtnessed so we could determine if his subjective opinion of what he witnessed is accurate.

There are objective facts and then subjective interpretaions of what those facts mean.

For instance, it can be an objective fact two people had an argument. Someone witnessing it may or may not be able to correctly identify what the argument was about and whether the fact this argument occurred means there is a bad relatioship between the parties.

We need to know exactly what the parties stated during the course of the argument in order to try to assess what the argument was about and whether the witness's opinions rendered about it was accurate.

If the witness can't recall what it was about or never actually had a basis to know based on the limited things heard than the unsupported subjective opinion is not reliable.

In the past we submitted questions for you to ask your friend but he has been very vague in answering most of them. The vague answers which mainly give his opinion without offering any examples or support do not provide us with much if any reliable insight.

His opinion that Ron Sr was a loudmouth is enough to suggest he didn't like him and thus could be biased in his views against him. A loud screaming father doesn't make a family dysfunctional.

You want a dysfunctional family, I know one. The wife refuses to cook or do laundry for her kids or husband. Her young children have to make their own breakfast and do their own laundry. She sleeps late while they get up to eat and go to school. She got a menial job so she could spend time with gossiping girlfreinds and the money she makes she uses only for herself she won't spend a dime on the kids let alone a family expense. She spends most of her time on the phone ignoring her kids. The husband has to work a day job and night job so is not around much. The husband and wife constantly argue and do things to spite one another. The wife is jealous of her children and takes any money people gives them as gifts and uses it for herself. The wife's mother has always favored her sister so she does things to try to impress her mother and wants alot of attention in generla. In the meantime she neglects her family. The children resent her and thus talk back and spite her. The father laughs when they do because he feels she deserves it when they do.

Or how about their neighbors. Their neighbors are a married couple where the husband is a transexual who lives as a woman. Their youngest child has severe emotional problems because of their unhealhy relationship and hates both "mothers". She is constantly in trouble and even ran away to try to get away from them. Their older child moved out at 16 because of the bad home environment. I am not going to get into the details of the extent of their problems suffice it to say they get visits from the state periodically and could one day lose their child if things get worse.

Let's compare that to the DeFeos. The DeFeos has a problem child named Ron Jr. He dropped out of high school at 16. They could have kicked him out at 18 and wrote him off but they didn't. They let him stay in their home and continued to support and try to help him until he murdered them at age 23. They provided him with a job that he could not get fired from no matter how much of a crappy worker he was but tried to insitill some sort of work ethic in him. They provided the children with a the best grammar school education they could provide before attenting public high school. The kids had a pool and anything else they needed and wanted. There is no evidence they were neglected or unloved. The mother cooked for the family and did the laundry and was involved in Church and school activities. The father was an adequate bread winner. The family attended Church together. Like any family they had arguments at times. The common theme as far as problems was always Ron. In one way or another people have stories of him doing something to someone that was bad.

Having a problem child doesn't make an entire family dysfunctional unlkess the fmaily lets the prblem child be so disruptive that the family stops operating as a "normal" family.

Against this backdrop of known information we need evidence and examples to illustrate the family was in fact secretly dysfunctional and that outward appearances were not as they seemed. Unsupported opinion simply doesn't cut it we need specifics.
Give it up, Corporal Scippy. You know nothing about the DeFeos or their family dynamic. Anyone that disagrees with you is either a liar, has mental problems, has faulty memories, or has an agenda. Try looking at yourself in a mirror and a moment, stop worshiping yourself.

scipio-USMC
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Posts: 1693

Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:46 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
BooshaGirl wrote:I didn't read the fights between you two ater the first squabble, but I do happen to know for a FACT that the family was dysfunctional. My friend who hung around with Ronnie before he went WAY OVERBOARD with the drugs told me so. He was over there a lot and hung out with Ronnie at the bar--so yes, I believe him...and yes...he said that was one ":) love :) UP FAMILY." That said, though--and I've said this before--he said he still can't believe Ronnie killed the little kids. Not in a "Dawn did it" way, but a "I just can't believe my former friend murdered children" kind of way.

He said the dad was an obnoxious loudmouth. He said Dawn was weird and the mom didn't say much of anything.
BooshaGirl, I would believe the word of someone that knew a family or person such as friends, neighbors, acquaintances, co-workers, or your friend over anyone who never met them and based their beliefs on how they want that person or family to appear. I also found family members to be unreliable sources in evaluating their own family. Can't tell you how many parents who think little Johnny or little Caitlan is greatest athlete, scholar, musician, singer, etc.

In High Hopes, the DeFeos were described by their neighbors to police investigators as loud, flaunting their wealth, and always screaming at one another. One of the cops investigating the murders said he could understand if Jr. murdered Sr. because both were scumbags. These all were people who knew the family, not someone on a message board pretending to be the utmost authority on a family and people he never knew.
People who blindly believe unsurpported opinion are eithe rnot interested in the truth or simpletons.

I made it clear I didn't know the DeFeos but that I demand proof and evidence about them. You are lying your ass off in claiming I insist I know all about them and am the foremost authority. Unlike you I admit what I don't know. You are the one who makes up crap all day long to suit your agenda. Someone who happens to have lived near them will not necessarily know more than someone who didn't know them at all though. There is a reason that courts do not allow opinion testimony and testimony about conclusions but rather require testimony about facts and the court renders the conclusions about the meaning.

You have no evidence at all to contradict the picture of the family that was painted at the trial. It is the burden of the proponent of a claim to provide evidence to rebut that account. Non specific rumors by people who were around the family a limited amount of time if at all doesn't cut it.

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:59 am

Victoria Principles wrote:Give it up, Corporal Scippy. You know nothing about the DeFeos or their family dynamic. Anyone that disagrees with you is either a liar, has mental problems, has faulty memories, or has an agenda. Try looking at yourself in a mirror and a moment, stop worshiping yourself.
I clearly know more than you about them. I know more than you about every topic under th esun. You are the one I called an immature, mental defect and you prove it everytime you post. You lie like a rug about everything and make things up because you have severe mental and emotional problems. You are so immature you keep calling me Corporal Scippy though I informed you I was never na enlisted man.

I will not give up looking at the matter rationally and requiring evidence as opposed to blindly believing unsupported rumors.

It is a fact that people often do not have a basis to know what they claim they know. The average acquaintance doesn't know all about the personal dynamics of afmaily only those who are around all the members often have a basis of knowledge. Knowing a member of the family or hanging out with a member doesn't translate into instant knowledge about the others. Third party perceptions are often wrong for a wide variety of reasons.

You are the one who claims to know it all you insist time and time again that the fmaily was dysfunctional but when challenged to provide evidence yo ualways fail, and fail completely.

Identify:

1) who the witness(es) you rely on who claim the family is dysfunctional

2) Identify their basis of knowledge

3) Identify the specific instances that they supposedly witnessed that leads them to believe the family was dysfunctional.

This is basis stuff taught in grade school.

No I won't give up until you put forward evidence to support your claims it means you are full of hot air, put up or shut up.

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3101

Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by Victoria Principles » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:39 am

scipio-USMC wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:Give it up, Corporal Scippy. You know nothing about the DeFeos or their family dynamic. Anyone that disagrees with you is either a liar, has mental problems, has faulty memories, or has an agenda. Try looking at yourself in a mirror and a moment, stop worshiping yourself.
I clearly know more than you about them. I know more than you about every topic under th esun. You are the one I called an immature, mental defect and you prove it everytime you post. You lie like a rug about everything and make things up because you have severe mental and emotional problems. You are so immature you keep calling me Corporal Scippy though I informed you I was never na enlisted man.

I will not give up looking at the matter rationally and requiring evidence as opposed to blindly believing unsupported rumors.

It is a fact that people often do not have a basis to know what they claim they know. The average acquaintance doesn't know all about the personal dynamics of afmaily only those who are around all the members often have a basis of knowledge. Knowing a member of the family or hanging out with a member doesn't translate into instant knowledge about the others. Third party perceptions are often wrong for a wide variety of reasons.

You are the one who claims to know it all you insist time and time again that the fmaily was dysfunctional but when challenged to provide evidence yo ualways fail, and fail completely.

Identify:

1) who the witness(es) you rely on who claim the family is dysfunctional

2) Identify their basis of knowledge

3) Identify the specific instances that they supposedly witnessed that leads them to believe the family was dysfunctional.

This is basis stuff taught in grade school.

No I won't give up until you put forward evidence to support your claims it means you are full of hot air, put up or shut up.
Wrong Corporal Scippy, you are the one full of hot air and a big blowhard. You go around saying people you know have mental problems when you have no proof or evidence backing it up. Say that to the wrong person and you could find yourself in court with a libel or slander suit. If you are the lawyer that you claim to be, then you should be careful what you are saying about people that you don't know and never met. You are one big hypocrit.

scipio-USMC
Amityville Maniac
Posts: 1693

Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by scipio-USMC » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:20 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
scipio-USMC wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:Give it up, Corporal Scippy. You know nothing about the DeFeos or their family dynamic. Anyone that disagrees with you is either a liar, has mental problems, has faulty memories, or has an agenda. Try looking at yourself in a mirror and a moment, stop worshiping yourself.
I clearly know more than you about them. I know more than you about every topic under th esun. You are the one I called an immature, mental defect and you prove it everytime you post. You lie like a rug about everything and make things up because you have severe mental and emotional problems. You are so immature you keep calling me Corporal Scippy though I informed you I was never na enlisted man.

I will not give up looking at the matter rationally and requiring evidence as opposed to blindly believing unsupported rumors.

It is a fact that people often do not have a basis to know what they claim they know. The average acquaintance doesn't know all about the personal dynamics of afmaily only those who are around all the members often have a basis of knowledge. Knowing a member of the family or hanging out with a member doesn't translate into instant knowledge about the others. Third party perceptions are often wrong for a wide variety of reasons.

You are the one who claims to know it all you insist time and time again that the fmaily was dysfunctional but when challenged to provide evidence yo ualways fail, and fail completely.

Identify:

1) who the witness(es) you rely on who claim the family is dysfunctional

2) Identify their basis of knowledge

3) Identify the specific instances that they supposedly witnessed that leads them to believe the family was dysfunctional.

This is basis stuff taught in grade school.

No I won't give up until you put forward evidence to support your claims it means you are full of hot air, put up or shut up.
Wrong Corporal Scippy, you are the one full of hot air and a big blowhard. You go around saying people you know have mental problems when you have no proof or evidence backing it up. Say that to the wrong person and you could find yourself in court with a libel or slander suit. If you are the lawyer that you claim to be, then you should be careful what you are saying about people that you don't know and never met. You are one big hypocrit.
You should take your own advice, the hypocrite is in your mirror. You are the one insisting in this thread that it is a fact the DeFeo family was dysfunctional. Did you know them? No but you insist you know they were dysfunctional. I challenged you to provide evidence. You could not provide any though which is the norm for you. You make the claim without any basis to do so. It is pretty easy to provide evidence if you actualyl had any. But you have no sepcific evidence just supposed rumors that you can't detail who started and can't provide and examples of what these rumors expressly say they did that was so dysfunctional.

Note that I gave examples of 2 dysfuctional families and provided details of why the families were dysfuctional.

As a lawyer I know first and foremost that truth is a 100 percent defense to a claim of libel. Moreover I know that opinion cannot be a basis for a libel claim, defamation requires making a factual statement that is a know lie or made with a reckless disregard for the truth which injures the good reputation of another.

You are your own worst enemy in terms of your reputation. You should take Mark Twain's advice about being better to be thought a fool than to open your trap and remove all doubt. My opinion as o your mental problems are supported by your actions including childish name calling and attacking peopel here for nothing. You act like a know it all but say such stupid things it is quite clear you know nothing and are overcompensating for your poor mental abilities. That of course is my opinion not something you could try to disprove in court. If i claimed you are in a mental institution that is a factual statement in contrast.

You can't stand it that everyone else here have so much more knowledge than you and are so much more intelligent so you lash out like a child and try to fool peopel into thinking you know something by acting as an authority. You are simply the jester of this site. Facing that is too much for you to face so you hide in an alternate reality where you pretend you are clever and briiliant.

While you play with rumours and try to dazzle people with BS I live in a world of facts. My thread about the murder bullets deals with facts. I went over everything from A-Z about the bullets. I explained how the evidence proved Ryan's claims to be completely wrong I didn't simply allege he was wrong and leave it at that. I would welcome him trying to sue me because my points were dead on. The last thing he would want is a court to rule I was correct about his claims being total BS so I have nothing to worry about as far as him trying. The coward won't even address my claims in public because he doesn't want to discuss the nitty gritty because he has no leg to stand on.

You should worry about yourself not me. Seek the mental help you desperately deserve and stop misrepresenting rumors as fact.

While you are at it you should research the difference between an enlisted man and commissioned officer in the military.

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BooshaGirl
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Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by BooshaGirl » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:42 am

Sighhhh....all I know is that he went to school with Ronnie and hung out with him a LOT. My friend continued with school and has a nice life for himself on Long Island. I don't care one way or another if anyone believes me or HIM...but if he EVER gives me permission to reveal his name, I will. I choose my questions wisely with him, as he gets frustrated at times with my interest and sometimes he'll yell at me "how the hell am I supposed to know that?" Other times, he's less "New Yorker-ish" and will think back and give me more details about when they were kids and later when they hung out in bars. He was actually relieved that Ronnie did not go in the same truck as he did to Woodstock, as he was already starting to get annoyed with him ... even at 17 years old. I guess Ronnie talked a great deal about going to Woodstock, but as far as I know, he didn't go. I'll ask again about this, but the arguing really wears me out with this board. Thank you Victoria for your support. Scipio, I do enjoy your insight and expertise...but lately you've been downright mean. I used to read your posts with great interest, but now must glaze over them, as I don't have time to read a novella every time. There is no question in my mind you are intelligent, but you come across (especially lately) as being a jerk. Victoria and I didn't exactly start out as friends here, but she's entitled to her opinions...and mistakes (if she makes them) without being ridiculed. You can correct people without being mean. Oh well. Back to my life. I really wish he had some photos of the two of him together...and I have asked...but he's like "in the 1960s and 70's, did YOU own a camera as a kid? If you did, did YOU take photos every time you went to a friend's house?" He's right. I hung out almost every day with my neighbor Patty--in HER HOUSE, but I have not ONE photo to prove it.

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Defeo Relatives/Decendants?

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:35 pm

I think everyone's had their say here. Thread now locked.

Interestingly, George Lutz told me he decided to stay home the weekend his friends went to Woodstock. Looks like Ronnie did the same!

Locked