Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

General Discussion About the 1974 DeFeo Murders and related topics
gd134
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Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:05 am

In January, the SCPD sent me a DVD with the full set of crime scene photos from the night the bodies were discovered. Some of these photos are not to be found on the internet. There was a particular set of photos taken in Allison's room that show where the bullet entered the mattress, and where it ricocheted off of the wall. These photos led me to conclude that Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position, with her head pointed towards the door. The photos show that the bullet had landed directly underneath her mattress. The second photo I looked at is an autopsy photo of Allison's face on the right, where the bullet had initially entered before exiting out her right ear. In case you didn't know, the bullet entered from her right cheek and exited out her left ear. This autopsy photo really shows a precise description of the angle of the bullet when it was fired. If Allison was really shot faced down, her right ear would be elevated above the pillow, which means there is no way in hell the bullet could have landed underneath the mattress, and instead farther away from it. The photos I looked at also led me to conclude that Ronnie had to enter Allison's room, stand near her drawer, and fire the bullet. I just don't see how the bullet could even come close to landing underneath the bed if Allison was actually shot from the doorway, with her head faced down on the pillow. This would only be possible if allison was sleeping with her head facing the door, that way her left ear would perfectly lineup with the trajectory of the bullet. Based on the wounds found on the victim, this is the only sleeping position that is consistent with the trajectory of the bullet as it entered and exited the mattress. Maybe my observations are wrong, or maybe I make a very good point. Let me know what you think.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:15 am

I made a couple of typos. I may have the bullet wound locations mixed up on a couple of sentences. Just remember that the bullet entered her left cheek and exited out of her right ear. Thanks.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

Michael9
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by Michael9 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:38 am

After what you say, my curiosity is increasing on these photos :shock:

jetsfan87
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by jetsfan87 » Wed May 06, 2020 12:54 pm

sorry im putting this here lol im new here,but how do i make my own post?

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by sherbetbizarre » Wed May 06, 2020 2:58 pm

jetsfan87 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 12:54 pm
sorry im putting this here lol im new here,but how do i make my own post?
You just did ;)

jetsfan87
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Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by jetsfan87 » Wed May 06, 2020 6:03 pm

no for a new topic

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu May 07, 2020 3:07 am

jetsfan87 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:03 pm
no for a new topic
Choose a forum, then look for the "New Topic" button near the top.

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am

gd134 wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 6:05 am
In January, the SCPD sent me a DVD with the full set of crime scene photos from the night the bodies were discovered. Some of these photos are not to be found on the internet. There was a particular set of photos taken in Allison's room that show where the bullet entered the mattress, and where it ricocheted off of the wall. These photos led me to conclude that Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position, with her head pointed towards the door. The photos show that the bullet had landed directly underneath her mattress. The second photo I looked at is an autopsy photo of Allison's face on the right, where the bullet had initially entered before exiting out her right ear. In case you didn't know, the bullet entered from her right cheek and exited out her left ear. This autopsy photo really shows a precise description of the angle of the bullet when it was fired. If Allison was really shot faced down, her right ear would be elevated above the pillow, which means there is no way in hell the bullet could have landed underneath the mattress, and instead farther away from it. The photos I looked at also led me to conclude that Ronnie had to enter Allison's room, stand near her drawer, and fire the bullet. I just don't see how the bullet could even come close to landing underneath the bed if Allison was actually shot from the doorway, with her head faced down on the pillow. This would only be possible if allison was sleeping with her head facing the door, that way her left ear would perfectly lineup with the trajectory of the bullet. Based on the wounds found on the victim, this is the only sleeping position that is consistent with the trajectory of the bullet as it entered and exited the mattress. Maybe my observations are wrong, or maybe I make a very good point. Let me know what you think.
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am

astonio wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

Michael9
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by Michael9 » Tue May 12, 2020 2:43 pm

gd134 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am
astonio wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.
in my opinion, allison was hit while she was looking at the shotgun, do you know the trajectory of the bullet?

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Tue May 12, 2020 3:05 pm

Michael9 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 2:43 pm
gd134 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am
astonio wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.
in my opinion, allison was hit while she was looking at the shotgun, do you know the trajectory of the bullet?
Yeah, I agree. I just don't think she was shot with her head faced flat on the pillow.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Wed May 13, 2020 5:19 am

gd134 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am
astonio wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.
I haven't read any credible source indicating otherwise so I am not sure I am following. You seem to be reiterating what is fact, which is cool for those wanting accurate information on the case, but who said Allison was lying flat on her pillow previously? I've only read she was raising her head and looking toward the doorway and into the muzzle of the rifle when Ronnie fired.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Posts: 126

Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Wed May 13, 2020 11:19 am

astonio wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:19 am
gd134 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am
astonio wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 4:42 am
This isn't true. The autopsy report indicates Allison was awake. There was stripling found in her eyes.
You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.
I haven't read any credible source indicating otherwise so I am not sure I am following. You seem to be reiterating what is fact, which is cool for those wanting accurate information on the case, but who said Allison was lying flat on her pillow previously? I've only read she was raising her head and looking toward the doorway and into the muzzle of the rifle when Ronnie fired.
It's really nice to hear that. I'm just tired of people who keep saying she was sleeping with her face flat on the pillow, because she wasn't. People tend to tie that false claim with the paranormal.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Wed May 13, 2020 4:11 pm

gd134 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 11:19 am
astonio wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:19 am
gd134 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:41 am


You are wrong. You completely misunderstood my point. I never said that Allison wasn't awake, that would be impossible. I am simply saying that Allison wasn't shot with her head faced flat on her pillow like she was found because that sleeping position is not consistent with the bullet trajectory. My theory states that Allison was sleeping in a natural sleeping position with her head facing the door, then as Ronnie walks in she raises her head, he fires the bullet and her head just falls flat on the pillow or Ronnie puts it faced down to avoid looking at his sister's face. You can go ahead and label it a "conjecture" but my reasoning is solid. Allison was not shot the way she was found. Her head had to be raised up, facing the other direction.


I haven't read any credible source indicating otherwise so I am not sure I am following. You seem to be reiterating what is fact, which is cool for those wanting accurate information on the case, but who said Allison was lying flat on her pillow previously? I've only read she was raising her head and looking toward the doorway and into the muzzle of the rifle when Ronnie fired.
It's really nice to hear that. I'm just tired of people who keep saying she was sleeping with her face flat on the pillow, because she wasn't. People tend to tie that false claim with the paranormal.

I haven’t heard that before.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Wed May 13, 2020 5:46 pm

astonio wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:11 pm
I haven’t heard that before.
I'm serious when I say you and msmart112 must be living in some fantasy world. Really, you've never heard that before? You're acting like the Amityville horror doesn't exist. How about you listen to Ed and Lorraine warren's perception about the murders? Or even Hanz Holzer. The way the Defeo's were sleeping that night has always confused people. It is clear that you intentionally go against everything I say because you are msmart112's puppet. You already agreed that what I say is fact, so you might as well just stop commenting on my thread.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Thu May 14, 2020 5:56 am

gd134 wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 5:46 pm
astonio wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 4:11 pm
I haven’t heard that before.
I'm serious when I say you and msmart112 must be living in some fantasy world. Really, you've never heard that before? You're acting like the Amityville horror doesn't exist. How about you listen to Ed and Lorraine warren's perception about the murders? Or even Hanz Holzer. The way the Defeo's were sleeping that night has always confused people. It is clear that you intentionally go against everything I say because you are msmart112's puppet. You already agreed that what I say is fact, so you might as well just stop commenting on my thread.
Kinda defensive bro. I wasn't coming at you with disbelief, I'm asking where you heard anything contrary to Allison being found other than in a natural sleep position because I have never read anywhere there is some discrepancy. Dawn however has been discussed in the context you're putting forth. The reference material you cite have extreme flaws and are not in accordance with the police investigation. I don't blend the conjecture of those authors you list with the evidence. Some things may be good for speculation, but not fact.

As for MSmart112, yeah, he's a friend and I'm not puppet. I have history on the board and have brought my own evidence to the board as you're doing now. Not everyone is going to agree with your assertions, but that should be ok. It's called discussion. You may even learn some things you haven't previously.

And let me know when you're an administrator so I will respect your request to not comment on your threads. Until then, it's an open forum.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Thu May 14, 2020 11:37 am

astonio wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 5:56 am
Kinda defensive bro. I wasn't coming at you with disbelief, I'm asking where you heard anything contrary to Allison being found other than in a natural sleep position because I have never read anywhere there is some discrepancy. Dawn however has been discussed in the context you're putting forth. The reference material you cite have extreme flaws and are not in accordance with the police investigation. I don't blend the conjecture of those authors you list with the evidence. Some things may be good for speculation, but not fact.
I know it was defensive. You mentioned that the authors I cited were not in accordance with the police report, and that is true. The point of this thread is to correct them, and I was never using them as evidence. You asked where I heard anything contrary to my statement, and I provided that to you. With all the people who continue to think Allison was shot faced down in documentaries and interviews, I was initially surprised when you asked where I had heard such a thing. It's literally all around us.
As for MSmart112, yeah, he's a friend and I'm not puppet. I have history on the board and have brought my own evidence to the board as you're doing now. Not everyone is going to agree with your assertions, but that should be ok. It's called discussion. You may even learn some things you haven't previously.
Now you're acting as if I'm intolerant of people with different views. You are wrong, I have always tolerated and respected other opinions for the most part. Perhaps you can tell your buddy msmart112 the same thing and maybe teach him some proper discussion guidelines, because that's what friends do. That way, he is less likely to suggest that someone should consult a psychiatrist, if you know what I'm talking about. Although I was defensive, I am never opposed to hearing different views. However, I do become defensive when people who have spent a fairly long time on this board like you ask a stupid question(s).
And let me know when you're an administrator so I will respect your request to not comment on your threads. Until then, it's an open forum.
That was merely a strong suggestion, and not a demand. You are more then welcome to continue commenting on my threads. However, you agreed I was speaking truth so what other incentive do you have for continuing to comment?
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Fri May 15, 2020 4:54 am

What brought me to this thread was the title. You say this information concerning Allison I honestly have never read or seen, but that is largely due to the sources you cite and agree are flawed. I steered away from suppositions when it comes to the morning of November 13 1974. It piqued my interest, I read your post and questioned your sources. That's really it.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Fri May 15, 2020 12:54 pm

astonio wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 4:54 am
What brought me to this thread was the title. You say this information concerning Allison I honestly have never read or seen, but that is largely due to the sources you cite and agree are flawed. I steered away from suppositions when it comes to the morning of November 13 1974. It piqued my interest, I read your post and questioned your sources. That's really it.
What's wrong with my sources? They come from the same police department who investigated this crime scene. Wouldn't you agree that is a credible source? How is it flawed? Unless you are referring to the warrens and other paranormal experts I previously mentioned, you are correct. However, those people never played part in my initial finding. I also showed solid reasoning and good independent thought. Unless you find anything wrong with my reasoning, I don't see how my conclusion regarding Allison's murder is false. Remember, the purpose of this thread is to refute those(I.E. the warrens, Hans Holzer, and anyone else) who still believe that all the victims were killed with their head facing flat on their pillow, which is clearly unnatural. I can see why people continue to believe Allison was shot with her head faced down. If you look at the crime scene photos in perspective to the door opening, it may appear so. However, photos taken from the other side of the bed clearly show that her head is slightly facing the door, which means she is not completely facing down. I hope this answers your questions regarding the credibility of my sources.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR

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astonio
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by astonio » Mon May 18, 2020 4:36 am

Yes, it does and we're on the same page.
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

gd134
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Re: Why I believe Allison was shot in a natural sleeping position.

Post by gd134 » Mon May 18, 2020 1:47 pm

astonio wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 4:36 am
Yes, it does and we're on the same page.
Good. Sorry for being defensive.
"I've lived in that house all these years, and I've seen never anything peculiar or strange, never once."
"The Amityville Horror is a big fat hoax created by weber."

-Ronald Defeo JR