Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:07 pm

I'm glad your feeling better Brendan. I completely agree with your comments on the PGF especially the muscle mass under the fur and designing a suit like this in general. I also have a few things to add.

1st, OK, so it a guy in a suit the skeptics say. Where did they get a suit that came complete with pendulous breasts??? I doubt that any hoaxer thought that one up and how did they alter said suit. Another good touch was the prominent sagittal crest. The skeptics can say that only male gorillas have a prominent sagittal crest. That's great but who says Sasquatch is a gorilla??

2nd, a guy by the name of Philip Morris, a costume maker said that Patterson ordered the suit from him for a "prank" but failed to offer any proof of the transaction. A guy by the name of Bob Heironimus supposedly wore the suit. OK fine..........show us the suit. You don't throw something like that away. Did it go in the same trash heap with the 1/4 moon window of 108 Ocean Avenue???? I doubt it. There is a picture floating around that show Bob holding up a gorilla costume head and torso and you can see it here:

http://sasquatchresearch.net/billmiller.html

http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/201 ... -suit.html

Notice the lack of both the sagittal crest and breasts? All I'm saying is if your going to make such a bold claim, find some way to back it up.

Last, there was a documentary years ago that tried to recreate the PGF using the same type of camera (a Kodak Cine-100 home movie camera). I think it was the X Creatures but I can't seem to find it on YT. Anyways, their recreation looked NOTHING like the PGF. Then the announcer exclaimed something like "see how easy that was". Again if your going to try and debunk this, you better have all your information at the ready.

Yes there are some questionable things about the PGF I can bring up but that will be a different post. I'm just agreeing with Brendan and many have tried to recreate it without success. If it is ever proven to be without a doubt a hoax, it the best one ever.
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

KDSPhantom
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by KDSPhantom » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:19 pm

Hello there
and thank you "13"
I'm pretty familiar with lots of those ideas

I don't mean to be rude but just to be blunt. Of course its a guy in a suit, because if the other option is that it is a Bigfoot. Now can there be other options?
Well, no I would say. I just don't think so, its either a hoax or its real.
But again to both of you the real question was,
what is your barrier of proof either way?

when I was talking about my older siblings and parents talking about the film and I see my memory was good when the film originated, was a TV show in the 70's maybe it was "In search of" or just the 6 million dollar man, sadly my memory isn't that good.

But I member them talking about the subject and my basic question to my dad was, "Is it real?"
the answer I got was that it was just as real as Gozilla or Dracula, two of my big idols at age 6 or 7.

But again now over 40 years past from the film and still no Bigfoot in a zoo, which would be my barrier of proof before I ever accepted them to be real.
You might say well a saber tooth tiger is real but we can not see them in a zoo, how do we know they are real. Hopefully you and any others that read this can know they are as real as the dinosaurs and other such animals because we can prove they did in fact exist without me helping.

As to your links about the suit and talking about the suit or if it was a suit and all that.
What it was or more my point what it looked like was just like a magic trick. So as I see it just as any other magic trick, I think its both interesting, and I can share your interest, and at the same time pointless to actually try to have a burden of proof on how they did the suit. As with most magic tricks the actual result is that the trick "worked" it looked real, the guy guessed your card or made the girl turn into a lion and that "looked" convincing, but we all know it was just entertainment. Some most and if not all tricks can be done several ways, so for me to actually figure out how they pulled off the trick is just that, an interesting conversation. Maybe over beers or a pizza maybe talking around a campfire.

What I do think is interesting as well is asking you all how you became either aware or what is it that makes it seem like they are real, if you think they are or what is it that makes you think they could be real, if that's how you see it. Again for me family talk in the mid 70's from the film. But what first got you all interested in this?

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:31 pm

Hello KDSPhantom

Here Goes:
What I do think is interesting as well is asking you all how you became either aware or what is it that makes it seem like they are real, if you think they are or what is it that makes you think they could be real, if that's how you see it. Again for me family talk in the mid 70's from the film. But what first got you all interested in this?
"The Legend of Boggy Creek" got me into this. I saw it 1st run when I was in elementary school and it never left me. I gobbled up everything I could find on the subject and the 70s was a hotbed for Sasquatch related stuff. Not just Sasquatch but everything paranormal. UFOs, The Bermuda Triangle, Mothman, cryptic animals you name it. Anything that couldn't be solved with a simple explanation I wanted to hear more about it. Did I or do I believe in all of it? No I don't, but still, like you I want to know how the legend came about and what made people believe. However, Sasquatch has remained a belief of mine for most of my life. I will always believe that the creature either exists or did exist at one time.
But again now over 40 years past from the film and still no Bigfoot in a zoo, which would be my barrier of proof before I ever accepted them to be real.
You might say well a saber tooth tiger is real but we can not see them in a zoo, how do we know they are real. Hopefully you and any others that read this can know they are as real as the dinosaurs and other such animals because we can prove they did in fact exist without me helping.
I would hope they would never end up in a zoo. Of course we have bones and fossils of Saber Tooth tigers to prove it's existence. Tar pits were great preservatives.

But what about Sasquatch bones you may ask (OK you didn't ask but I will say anyways ;) ). I will rely on the late, great Grover Krantz for his take on this. He said that people ask him all the time "why don't we find their bones". Grover asked many rangers, hikers, naturalists, hunters and weed growers (just kidding about that last one) if they ever found the bones of a bear. The answer is always NO. The ecosystem mixed with weather mixed with other animals feeding will dispose of hide and skeleton fairly quickly. Lets speculate even further (with no proof I know but just speculation). Bears know when they are dying and normally go off by themselves to join the great salmon run in the sky. Why couldn't unknown humanoids be as smart? Just a speculation.

Anyways, I have more to add but I have to go for now. I will return in the next couple of days to finish up. Thanks you KDSPhantom for being a great debater with tact.

# 13
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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Fnord
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Fnord » Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:17 am

I was going to weigh in to this thread full force but saw I have already done a bunch of that under my old 'Matt' account.

Moving forward then:

There is proof and there is evidence. They are not the same thing. Proof is significantly rarer.

Look at the nature of this message board for example. Enough evidence existed that Defeo killed his family that it convinced a jury of his peers that he did it. is there proof? if there was, no one would be speculating about Dawn DeFeo, Geraldine and the whole laundry list of characters. Same thing with the subsequent haunting. The Lutzes convinced a jury of peers (obviously figuratively) that they were being truthful. So much so that many believe their story to be true.

Evidence with regard to Sasquatch:

The Patterson Gimlin Film - Thought to be a true depiction by many scientists actually trained in the field of primatology. Despite claims of 'man in suit' the materials available at the time would have made the construction of the suit cost prohibitive and would not have been able to produce the resultant film. This is verified by professionals who had experience/expertise working with the best available materials at the time of the film. In fact, it is only within the past 20 years that flexible fur material used in conjunction with an undersuit (muscle) could produce what is seen on the film and even then, the proportions of creature to human are far afield. Finally, despite numerous offerings of rewards, the alleged suit has never been produced nor has anyone credible come forward to claim that they created the suit (the Morris suit is a joke IMO).

Footprint Casts - There is a huge database of 'credible' footprint casts that have been collected since the 1950's all the way through today. To my way of thinking, credible means that a professor in the field of primatology with an expertise in primate locomotion has examined the casts. Dr. Jeff Meldrum and his team meet such criteria. In order for these casts to have been faked, it would take an extended and organized group of fakers from the 1950's until today with enough sophistication to fool professionals who are naturally skeptical. These casts have consistent qualities including dermal ridges that are different than man and ape but consistent with one another. Some have scars, some have toes missing, some show evidence of damaged or broken toes. All things you'd expect to see in any cross section of life. The idea of a worldwide footprint faking consortium is much more difficult for me to believe than the idea that something out there is leaving footprints. Remove the evidence of the Patterson Gimlin film altogether and there is still this.

Discovery - New animals of all kinds are being discovered daily. The mountain gorilla was a myth until the 1920's-30's. Much more recently the bonobo was myth in the Congo until someone was able to document its existence. One common thread is that these animals are seen and reported by indigenous peoples for many years before science really begins to pay attention. The 'wild men' of the woods have been depicted in art work for centuries. Sasquatch really has only been a cultural phenomena since the 1970's and it is entirely possible that they are naturally elusive. The bonobos were guffawed at for years even though they actually live close to human populations and not far out in dense wilderness where proximity plays a definite role.

The Fossil Record - The idea of a gigantic ape or some kind of crossover (bobobo is closest to man and exhibits many human like traits) does not only exist in fantasy. The remains of Gigantopithecus were discovered and cataloged in 1935. There isn't evidence that this was an upright ape, but it certainly puts to bed the idea that large apes never existed. By extrapolation the Giganto was a 10' tall ape weighing well upwards of 1,000 pounds.

If any individual sees fit, they may then weigh the credibility of thousands of reported sightings across the globe. Some are plausible, some are fantastic, some come with other evidence such as hair (which I don't list above because of goofiness surrounding right now) and even a potential body cast (Skookum Cast).

When people say "there isn't any evidence of Bigfoot" I remind them that there is, actually, a lot of evidence. What's currently lacking is a cohesive way to tie it all together to make a proof.

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:22 pm

Fnord, you took the words right outta my mouth. I was going to write this big long follow-up but you did it for me :D Especially what you wrote about footprints. I will go even further. Grover Krantz laid it all out. How could (or why for that matter) would someone press tracks into the hard dirt, 2-3" deep in very remote places in the offhand chance someone will find them?

I leave you all with a quote from the late great Rene Dahinden.

"Something is making those GD tracks"
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by sherbetbizarre » Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:22 pm

Fisherman Says He Saw Bigfoot Bathing ... And He Sent Us A Picture!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/01/0 ... lp00000592

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Brendan72
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Fri Feb 06, 2015 4:19 am

Was this a fisherman in deepest Africa? Or did he just take happy snaps during a recent visit to the zoo?
- Brendan72

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Brendan72
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Sun Oct 25, 2015 3:45 am

I am not sure whether this is an elaborate hoax or the real thing ...

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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by jimmysmokes » Sun Oct 25, 2015 10:50 am

Brendan72 wrote:I am not sure whether this is an elaborate hoax or the real thing ...

well, you believe in demonic flying pigs, why would you doubt this?
FIRE THAT THING UP!

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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Oct 27, 2015 5:03 am

jimmysmokes wrote: well, you believe in demonic flying pigs, why would you doubt this?
I don't believe everything I see or hear, flying pigs or not.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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sherbetbizarre
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by sherbetbizarre » Thu Sep 15, 2016 4:42 pm

One man's NSFW account!

jimmysmokes
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by jimmysmokes » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:52 pm

he looks terrified by his hair! must have seen something.
FIRE THAT THING UP!

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Ayko
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Ayko » Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:09 am

jimmysmokes wrote:he looks terrified by his hair! must have seen something.
Probably an actor with the cameraman holding a photograph of jimmysmokes when he wakes up in the morning after a weekend gig.
Father Ryan: I'm not in the habit of blaming Satan for every phenomenon.

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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by jimmysmokes » Sat Sep 17, 2016 6:16 am

that guy could give ryan a run for his money on the hair thing.
FIRE THAT THING UP!

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 10:41 pm

sherbetbizarre wrote:One man's NSFW account!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

"I was afraid the damn thing was gonna bend me over the Weber kettle and corn hole me"

LOL I needed that. One of the funniest things I have seen in a while.
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:20 pm

Brendan72 wrote:I am not sure whether this is an elaborate hoax or the real thing ...

Probably a hoax but creepy none the less!
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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Brendan72
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Sun Oct 02, 2016 5:07 pm

I am waiting for Finding Bigfoot to investigate it, get out into the woods for a night investigation, after which they find nothing.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:33 am

No doubt, that show is the worst. It goes like this "hey, did you hear that" as they are recording. Then the dramatic, growling sasquatch comes on screen and then to a commercial break. When they come back they talk about it but never replay the recording :fp:
Brendan72 wrote:I am waiting for Finding Bigfoot to investigate it, get out into the woods for a night investigation, after which they find nothing.
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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Brendan72
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:27 pm

# 13 wrote:No doubt, that show is the worst. It goes like this "hey, did you hear that" as they are recording. Then the dramatic, growling sasquatch comes on screen and then to a commercial break. When they come back they talk about it but never replay the recording :fp:
Brendan72 wrote:I am waiting for Finding Bigfoot to investigate it, get out into the woods for a night investigation, after which they find nothing.
The only two I take seriously are Cliff and Ranae. Bobo is a nice enough guy though why take your dog on a trek for Bigfoot since the creature apparently dislikes dogs? I guess they have to hype up their trips out to the forest otherwise it will just be a couple of people out in the woods listening to nothing but coyotes and other creatures hunting at night.

Some of the witness testimonies are interesting though. There was an episode where a woman wanted to remain anonymous - that tends to add some credibility.
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"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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Brendan72
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by Brendan72 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:07 am

Some vocalizations and other activities of what is claimed to be Bigfoot.

- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

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# 13
The Creepin Yeti
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Re: Cryptozoology and Bigfoot

Post by # 13 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:21 pm

Brendan72 wrote:Some vocalizations and other activities of what is claimed to be Bigfoot.


Pretty cool B, thanks for posting! One vocalization sounds like a straight up burp but that may be (if real) how they communicate. They were definitely pissed off that the guy was there.
"Either the most complex and sophisticated hoax in the history of Anthropology has continued for centuries without being exposed or the most manlike and largest non human primate has managed to survive in parts of North America and remains undiscovered by modern science."
Prof G.W.Gill - President of the American Board of Forensic Anthropology

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