The Lutz's

General Discussion About Anything Amityville And Other Paranormal Topics
cdyhnry
**New Account**
Posts: 1

The Lutz's

Post by cdyhnry » Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Okay, I am new to this site, and I recently read that George and Kathy Lutz died, beit under odd circumstances, does anyone know when and how they died, im doing a paper on hauntings and cant find anything on the two lutz adults.

User avatar
believer
Amityville Member
Posts: 41

Re: The Lutz's

Post by believer » Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:49 pm

cdyhnry wrote:Okay, I am new to this site, and I recently read that George and Kathy Lutz died, beit under odd circumstances, does anyone know when and how they died, im doing a paper on hauntings and cant find anything on the two lutz adults.

Where did you read that they died under 'odd' circumstances?

Kathy died from emphysema and George died of natural causes as a result of heart disease. The only thing odd is that they both died in their late 50's. Considering that both of them were heavy smokers for decades would explain why though.

User avatar
Brendan72
Forest Giant
Posts: 3023
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Brendan72 » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:32 pm

For clarification Kathy died in 2004 at the age of 57 from complications stemming from Valley Fever, which is a respiratory illness. Although I am not medically trained I can see how symptoms can be confused with emphysema.

George passed away in 2005 aged 59 - I cannot remember what the exact cause of his death was, though I do recall it being mentioned he had complications with his heart. Whether it was from a pre-existing condition I cannot comment because I do not have enough information.

Given their shared background with regard to the Amityville case I can see how people would regard their deaths as "suspicious", particularly if you subscribe to the deaths of other people connected to the case, whether by natural causes or otherwise and the theory that the house (or the presence inside or emanating from it) was somehow responsible. It can be very easy to draw influence of this idea from Omen movies and how characters in the films who went against the protagonist died from an accident caused by supernatural causes, similar with The Exorcist, where an ominous, dark force is involved and influences surroundings to make people's deaths look accidental. Given the decade the case took place - the 1970's - and the same decade that saw a resurgence (or a resurrection, if you will) of the horror movie genre with the above movies (as well as others) it is easy to come to various conclusions.

In and of themselves the causes of death of both George and Kathy were not entirely unusual, given that heart disease and deaths arising from it, are not uncommon in today's society. If you removed the Amityville case and the haunting from the equation their deaths would not be regarded with such suspicion given that the respective causes are not uncommon, although if heart disease would be regarded as a more common cause of illness and death than Valley Fever, other respiratory diseases such as emphysema and asthma are more common. These conditions can be either hereditary, arise from lifestyle, or environmental factors. I cannot comment what initially caused George and Kathy's conditions that led to their deaths.

We don't have enough information or evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt a connection with the haunting and their deaths. We can speculate, and do, regarding it. Although these are theories, they are strong circumstantially given the background. When you look at the amount of deaths surrounding this case, you cannot but wonder about it.
- Brendan72

"May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house."
- George Carlin. Comedian. (1937-2008)

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:50 am

George died of a heart attack. Not surprising since he was a heavy smoker and was under a lot of stress because of his court battle over the Amityville remake.

User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
Posts: 494
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Matt9290 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:59 am

Victoria Principles wrote:George died of a heart attack. Not surprising since he was a heavy smoker and was under a lot of stress because of his court battle over the Amityville remake.
While not ‘paranormal’ as such, if you are right Victoria, then the house was indirectly responsible for George’s death.
Being “under a lot of stress because of his court battle over the Amityville remake” would be bad for his heart, and was probably one of the reasons George smoke more etc.
Which reminds me - I must give it up myself one day soon!!!
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:04 pm

Matt9290 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:George died of a heart attack. Not surprising since he was a heavy smoker and was under a lot of stress because of his court battle over the Amityville remake.
While not ‘paranormal’ as such, if you are right Victoria, then the house was indirectly responsible for George’s death.
Being “under a lot of stress because of his court battle over the Amityville remake” would be bad for his heart, and was probably one of the reasons George smoke more etc.
Which reminds me - I must give it up myself one day soon!!!

George died 30 years after he died from the house. George was not happy with the way that he was portrayed with the movie remake as a homocidal killer and took MGM to court. It was also at the this time that he and Chris sued one another when Chris came forward and said George helped brought on the haunting by dabbling in the occult and that George exaggerated parts of the book.

User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
Posts: 494
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Matt9290 » Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:11 pm

It's always sad to hear about people dying prematurely.
There seems to have been a lot of anger and grudges in the Lutz household - The story is really quite sad on many levels.
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:36 pm

Lots of people in the Amityville case did die prematurely. Some could be explained though. Jay Anson died a couple of years after the book came out, but had a history of heart disease before he got involved in the Amityville case. Gerald Sullivan, Steve Kaplan, Bobby Kelsie. Others lived a long time like the Warrens, Hans Holzers, the Cromarties.

User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
Posts: 494
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Matt9290 » Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:54 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:Lots of people in the Amityville case did die prematurely. Some could be explained though. Jay Anson died a couple of years after the book came out, but had a history of heart disease before he got involved in the Amityville case. Gerald Sullivan, Steve Kaplan, Bobby Kelsie. Others lived a long time like the Warrens, Hans Holzers, the Cromarties.
Sounds a bit like Thomas Busby's stoop chair... They claim that 63 people (since 1702) have died after sitting in the chair, but hundreds of other lived... I guess we all look for causes when sometimes it's just coincidence or law-of-averages.

Thanks for the new info Victoria - I was unaware that Bobby Kelske had passed away - apparently he died in 2001 at age 50.
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jan 08, 2013 6:47 am

There were also two deaths of young adults associated with the house after the Lutz's left. The Cromarie's had a son/stepson who had Ronnie's bedroom and died of a drug overdose (though this was not that uncommon in the 1970s) and the O'Neills had a son who died in the WTC 9/11 event. The O'Neills were not living in the house at the time that happened.

User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
Posts: 494
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Matt9290 » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:03 am

Victoria Principles wrote:There were also two deaths of young adults associated with the house after the Lutz's left. The Cromarie's had a son/stepson who had Ronnie's bedroom and died of a drug overdose (though this was not that uncommon in the 1970s) and the O'Neills had a son who died in the WTC 9/11 event. The O'Neills were not living in the house at the time that happened.
One of the O'Neill’s died at the WTC 9/11 event!!! This is news to me!
I’ve just looked it up, and you are absolutely right - it was Peter O'Neill.
I really need to broaden my view to outside of the 1970s and early 80s, I keep missing information such as this!
Thanks Victoria :clap:
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:42 pm

Matt9290 wrote:
Victoria Principles wrote:Lots of people in the Amityville case did die prematurely. Some could be explained though. Jay Anson died a couple of years after the book came out, but had a history of heart disease before he got involved in the Amityville case. Gerald Sullivan, Steve Kaplan, Bobby Kelsie. Others lived a long time like the Warrens, Hans Holzers, the Cromarties.
Sounds a bit like Thomas Busby's stoop chair... They claim that 63 people (since 1702) have died after sitting in the chair, but hundreds of other lived... I guess we all look for causes when sometimes it's just coincidence or law-of-averages.

Thanks for the new info Victoria - I was unaware that Bobby Kelske had passed away - apparently he died in 2001 at age 50.

Or the King Tut curse. The two explorers that found it died early, but many others that came in contact with it lived a long time.

User avatar
t00nCiNaToR
I Kick Ass for the Lord!
Posts: 1283
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by t00nCiNaToR » Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:22 am

Matt9290 wrote:It's always sad to hear about people dying prematurely.
There seems to have been a lot of anger and grudges in the Lutz household - The story is really quite sad on many levels.

Yeah the only sad thing is that Butchie is still alive... Ironically had he not have killed his family and went to prison he probably would have never saw 30 years old... So in a way, killing his family did save his useless life.
"It happened so quick. I mean, it was boom, boom, boom. From the first killing to the last, it never took any longer than seven seconds,
it would be alot, that would have been alot. Seven seconds." - Ronald J. DeFeo Jr.

Cole00
Amityville Member
Posts: 48
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Cole00 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:16 am

Where did you hear they died of odd causes yes they were in there mid to late 50s and very heavy smokers so all considering passing at that age does not seem odd too me

Amityville Rock
Amityville Addict
Posts: 276
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Amityville Rock » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:42 pm

The only odd thing I've ever heard about either of the Lutzes' deaths is the suggestion by Mary Downey (Pascerella sp?), one of the Warrens' psychic investigators, that when Kathy turned into 'an old hag' while living in the Horror House it wasn't possession but something even worse. Mary alleged that during the 'hag' transformations the house was actually terrorizing Kathy by showing Kathy her own future. If you've ever seen the History Channel documentary, that was shot roughly five years before Kathy's untimely demise, Kathy's terminal illness aged the poor woman at least forty years. I found this allegation by Mary has always unnerved me for some reason. It was stated by Mary on the now defeunt paranormal internet radio show Ghostly Talk (the archive of all their shows are still up at the below link) after the remake came out in 2005 -

http://www.ghostlytalk.com/
Special Guest Star

est. 1999

User avatar
Matt9290
Oh My Goodness
Posts: 494
Location: Newcastle UK

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Matt9290 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:15 pm

That's an interesting twist 'Rock' - first time I've heard it. I have a copy of the History Channel interview and Kathy did seem to age prematurely, especially in comparison to George sat along side her on the show.
There was a very similar occurrence reported about Sharon Tate, who it is claimed got a 'glimpse' at her own horrific death - not sure how true Tate's account is though.
I wish I had the nerve not to tip...

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:58 am

Amityville Rock wrote:The only odd thing I've ever heard about either of the Lutzes' deaths is the suggestion by Mary Downey (Pascerella sp?), one of the Warrens' psychic investigators, that when Kathy turned into 'an old hag' while living in the Horror House it wasn't possession but something even worse. Mary alleged that during the 'hag' transformations the house was actually terrorizing Kathy by showing Kathy her own future. If you've ever seen the History Channel documentary, that was shot roughly five years before Kathy's untimely demise, Kathy's terminal illness aged the poor woman at least forty years. I found this allegation by Mary has always unnerved me for some reason. It was stated by Mary on the now defeunt paranormal internet radio show Ghostly Talk (the archive of all their shows are still up at the below link) after the remake came out in 2005 -

http://www.ghostlytalk.com/

I don't think that Kathy looked anything like a 90 year old woman (as she described in the book) or an old hag on the History Mysteries special.

There was some exchange between George and Christopher on this board (or one of the board predecessors) involving this subject. George said that Kathy's mother witnessed Kathy changing into an old woman. Christopher stated he called his grandmother and she denied ever seeing it. Not sure if Kathys mother is still living today.

Amityville Rock
Amityville Addict
Posts: 276
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Amityville Rock » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:45 am

Victoria Principles wrote:
Amityville Rock wrote:The only odd thing I've ever heard about either of the Lutzes' deaths is the suggestion by Mary Downey (Pascerella sp?), one of the Warrens' psychic investigators, that when Kathy turned into 'an old hag' while living in the Horror House it wasn't possession but something even worse. Mary alleged that during the 'hag' transformations the house was actually terrorizing Kathy by showing Kathy her own future. If you've ever seen the History Channel documentary, that was shot roughly five years before Kathy's untimely demise, Kathy's terminal illness aged the poor woman at least forty years. I found this allegation by Mary has always unnerved me for some reason. It was stated by Mary on the now defeunt paranormal internet radio show Ghostly Talk (the archive of all their shows are still up at the below link) after the remake came out in 2005 -

http://www.ghostlytalk.com/

I don't think that Kathy looked anything like a 90 year old woman (as she described in the book) or an old hag on the History Mysteries special.

There was some exchange between George and Christopher on this board (or one of the board predecessors) involving this subject. George said that Kathy's mother witnessed Kathy changing into an old woman. Christopher stated he called his grandmother and she denied ever seeing it. Not sure if Kathys mother is still living today.
I'm just repeating what I heard on Ghostlytalk back in 2005 because a poster brought up odd possible occurrences surrounding Kathy's & Lee's deaths. I recall the exchange you mention, but don't honestly know what to make of it. As it was never clear if Chris meant his mother did age though less than Lee stated, or if she never aged at all.

Another, very strange tid bit, I was once told that involved Kathy's brother Jimmy. Back in the spring of 2000 I asked Ric Osuna why Jimmy & his wife Carry had never been interviewed for the upcoming History's Mysteries documentary on the History Channel. This was after Ric, and his then partner on the project Scottie Gee, listed those they were interviewing. Ric's response floored me. Ric stated that Lee Lutz told him that Kathy's family informed Lee years before that Jimmy had been abducted by aliens and was never seen again! :shock: Several years later, when I became friends with Lee, I was told more or less the same story. Lee told me point blank that Jimmy had vanished years ago, and Kathy's family seemed to think aliens may have been involved. No information was forthcoming concerning the whereabouts of Jimmy's Wife Carry.
Special Guest Star

est. 1999

Victoria Principles
I Am Insane
Posts: 3104

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Victoria Principles » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:04 pm

Rock, George and Kathy did live in Arizona and there are a lot of alien kidnappings there. Oh I guess you mean the space alien kind. This is quite of an outrageous claim. This is part of the reason why I have a hard time with some of the things George Lutz says and why I believe some of the stuff that Chris and Danny say about George.

OK, one way to look into this is to see what Kathy's maiden name was. It was Connors. An internet search may bring up a James or Carry Connors. So far I found nothing and nothing. Kathy's mother name was Joan and I found nothing much about that either. If Jimmy did go missing, then there should be a missing persons report. I certainly hope they did file a missing persons report even if they suspected he was kidnapped by aliens. Just in case if he is not.

Amityville Rock
Amityville Addict
Posts: 276
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by Amityville Rock » Mon Jan 14, 2013 1:15 pm

I tried what you are doing now Victoria, years ago, and I couldn't find anything on Jimmy or Carry either. Yes, I do find it odd that neither they, Kathy's mother and/or the original physic medium (and her boyfriend) Lee brought in for an informal investigation of the house (as detailed in the Amityville Horror novel) never came forward over the past three decades. These people all were adults at the time, and have invaluable first hand information pretaining to the case.
Special Guest Star

est. 1999

User avatar
sherbetbizarre
Administrator
Posts: 9698
Contact:

Re: The Lutz's

Post by sherbetbizarre » Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:46 pm

Victoria Principles wrote:I don't think that Kathy looked anything like a 90 year old woman (as she described in the book) or an old hag on the History Mysteries special.

There was some exchange between George and Christopher on this board (or one of the board predecessors) involving this subject. George said that Kathy's mother witnessed Kathy changing into an old woman. Christopher stated he called his grandmother and she denied ever seeing it. Not sure if Kathys mother is still living today.
That was George talking about the time it happened at her mothers house, not the one or two times it happened in the house, which Kathy herself witnessed.

Post Reply