Will you believe Chris & Danny?

[sherbetbizarre]

I don't mind a few "fake" pictures for promo purposes, as long as they do not try and pass them off as the real thing in the documentary.

[Victoria Principles]

DC Fan,

Not sure what you are getting at. What is the big deal about this photo?

Victoria:

You have yourself expressed the theory that the photo is edited, even if you don't like the word "fake". So I suspect what we really disagree on is the usage of it. I think a documentary filmmaker should not use it and still expect me to grant him the same credibility as I might grant his guest or another filmmaker who only shows unedited photos. If the real thing just does not exist they are not required to create it. They can go ahead with just a regular school photo or nothing. If you want to disagree with that it's your choice.

The People article mentions that the adoption occured and scrunches it in with events in New York. It does not say exactly that the adoption occured in New York but I agree it can be interpreted that way. In the other article it is George himself saying the adoption occured in California. This is an example of how I use the concept of credibility. George would have known and had no reason to lie about this. To effect this adoption in California, he could have simply paid Mr. Quaratino's expenses in submitting a sworn affidavit through a notary public. Thus these articles do not alter my opinion one iota that if that certificate is of adoption it should be from California.

DC Fan,

Is the photo of Danny fake? (Is it another kid)? Is the photo of the house fake (Is it a different house)? Have you ever thought that this is a photo of Danny against a background photo of the house?

As far as the aboption laws go, here is summary of New York state laws, including a section on step parent adoption.
http://www.nysccc.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/adoptionbasics.pdf

When adopted, the adopted kids get a new birth certificate with the step parent and natural parents name on them. Since the Quarantino kids father still lived in New York state and the father had to OK the adoption, there is probably certificate of adoption in both New York and California.

[DC Fan]

DC Fan,

Not sure what you are getting at. What is the big deal about this photo?

Victoria:

You have yourself expressed the theory that the photo is edited, even if you don't like the word "fake". So I suspect what we really disagree on is the usage of it. I think a documentary filmmaker should not use it and still expect me to grant him the same credibility as I might grant his guest or another filmmaker who only shows unedited photos. If the real thing just does not exist they are not required to create it. They can go ahead with just a regular school photo or nothing. If you want to disagree with that it's your choice.

The People article mentions that the adoption occured and scrunches it in with events in New York. It does not say exactly that the adoption occured in New York but I agree it can be interpreted that way. In the other article it is George himself saying the adoption occured in California. This is an example of how I use the concept of credibility. George would have known and had no reason to lie about this. To effect this adoption in California, he could have simply paid Mr. Quaratino's expenses in submitting a sworn affidavit through a notary public. Thus these articles do not alter my opinion one iota that if that certificate is of adoption it should be from California.

DC Fan,

Is the photo of Danny fake? (Is it another kid)? Is the photo of the house fake (Is it a different house)? Have you ever thought that this is a photo of Danny against a background photo of the house?

As far as the aboption laws go, here is summary of New York state laws, including a section on step parent adoption.
http://www.nysccc.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/adoptionbasics.pdf

When adopted, the adopted kids get a new birth certificate with the step parent and natural parents name on them. Since the Quarantino kids father still lived in New York state and the father had to OK the adoption, there is probably certificate of adoption in both New York and California.

Victoria:

I have conceded such things in previous posts. It is Danny, the house, the grass, the sky -- all real constituents of the furniture of the universe. I don't need to deny these things. The photo still depicts an event that did not occur, namely Danny standing in front of the house, facing a camera during his childhood. I still think our disagreement is about the use of the photo. Also, I don't see where it says in your pdf link that a child born in New York has to be adopted there or that Quaratino could not have made a surrender through a notary public or through another method. At any rate, if Eric Walter wants, he can tell us what the document is and how it is genuine.

There are those who feel that my ethic of making and promoting a documentary is too strong; too much like a court of law in which that photo and that document without explanationn would be inadmissable. I could still retort that such things need not be used and put out into the public eye, but I can agree to disagree with those who do not accept this.

So let's agree to disagree.

[AllisonFlorida]

Regardless of what they say, will you believe them simply because they're the children of George and Kathy Lutz?

NO WAY. The only way to know the truth is to have been there your self. Allison

[AllisonFlorida]

They are children of Kathy Lutz, not George Lutz.

I believe a lot of what they said. Since they were young, especially Chris, their perspective back then could be clouded. But what they said fills in a lot of blanks. Like why the forces followed them and did not stay in the house. Many people who move from alleged haunted houses don't have the forces follow them. The force at Amityville seem to be attached to the Lutzes, not the house. This often happens when people fool around with the occult without the proper precautions.

I also thought there was something George and Kathy were hiding. It wasn't that they were in on a hoax, but got into something more deeply then what they really intended on.

Or they had to say it because they knew what would happen to them if they did not do as they were told. Allison

[DC Fan]

They are children of Kathy Lutz, not George Lutz.

I believe a lot of what they said. Since they were young, especially Chris, their perspective back then could be clouded. But what they said fills in a lot of blanks. Like why the forces followed them and did not stay in the house. Many people who move from alleged haunted houses don't have the forces follow them. The force at Amityville seem to be attached to the Lutzes, not the house. This often happens when people fool around with the occult without the proper precautions.

I also thought there was something George and Kathy were hiding. It wasn't that they were in on a hoax, but got into something more deeply then what they really intended on.

Or they had to say it because they knew what would happen to them if they did not do as they were told. Allison

Allison:
We are now talking about what they are saying as adults. As children they were ordered to keep silent and did so. Who is now telling them what to say and what could happen?

[optitom]

Hi. I'm from Amityville and grew up on Hamilton Street around the corner from ocean avenue and the house. I was young, about 5 years old when the murders occurred and know bob kelskey personally. The only thing that happened which is true..I REPEAT!!!!!! The only true thing that happened there that was true was that Ron, or butch, killed his family. Thats all that happened...no ghosts, possessions, devil worships, Indian burial grounds or anything like that on or near the property...no witches, werewolves, bigfoots or aliens spoke through him either. He was a heroin addict who killed his family for the money for more drugs. Please just let it be. Amityville is a beautiful town that has been scarred and idiots keep coming into it to have seances, devil worships and all kinds of crazy :) flower :). People have actually ripped peices of the siding off the poor owners house and dig up the grass for souvegniers. Please let the owners live in peace. Its always been occupied and no other owners have fled in the night. The Lutzes couldnt pay the mortgage and left. The :) silly dilly :) saying they never returned to get their belongings is also :) silly dilly :). I saw them return, being an 8 year old boy, return and collect their motorcycles and everything else into a uhaul.THE GHOSTS NEVER HAPPENED!!! There are no burial grounds, no witches or anything remotely close to that in Amityville. Please just let the residents be!!! I will gladly speak to people who are interested and want to know the truth..seeing as how i was there. Thanx

[Victoria Principles]

Hi. I'm from Amityville and grew up on Hamilton Street around the corner from ocean avenue and the house. I was young, about 5 years old when the murders occurred and know bob kelskey personally. The only thing that happened which is true..I REPEAT!!!!!! The only true thing that happened there that was true was that Ron, or butch, killed his family. Thats all that happened...no ghosts, possessions, devil worships, Indian burial grounds or anything like that on or near the property...no witches, werewolves, bigfoots or aliens spoke through him either. He was a heroin addict who killed his family for the money for more drugs. Please just let it be. Amityville is a beautiful town that has been scarred and idiots keep coming into it to have seances, devil worships and all kinds of crazy flower . People have actually ripped peices of the siding off the poor owners house and dig up the grass for souvegniers. Please let the owners live in peace. Its always been occupied and no other owners have fled in the night. The Lutzes couldnt pay the mortgage and left. The silly dilly saying they never returned to get their belongings is also silly dilly . I saw them return, being an 8 year old boy, return and collect their motorcycles and everything else into a uhaul.THE GHOSTS NEVER HAPPENED!!! There are no burial grounds, no witches or anything remotely close to that in Amityville. Please just let the residents be!!! I will gladly speak to people who are interested and want to know the truth..seeing as how i was there. Thanx

Optotom,

Did you ever meet any of the Lutz's including their kids? Their kids would have been around your age then.

[Jacobmarley1]

Hi. I'm from Amityville and grew up on Hamilton Street around the corner from ocean avenue and the house. I was young, about 5 years old when the murders occurred and know bob kelskey personally.

How would a 5-year old personally know Bobby Kelske, who was about 20-years old? Were the Kelske's friends of the family, or something?

[Victoria Principles]

Hi. I'm from Amityville and grew up on Hamilton Street around the corner from ocean avenue and the house. I was young, about 5 years old when the murders occurred and know bob kelskey personally.

How would a 5-year old personally know Bobby Kelske, who was about 20-years old? Were the Kelske's friends of the family, or something?

He could have gotten to know Kelske later in life. But then again, anyone could make the claims that optitom made.

[optitom]

No, i never met any of the lutzes, i was too young, and i knew kelske from when i was a bartender at jj's tavern, it used to be the witches brew and he would come in every once in awhile for a few beers. I did not know he even died, i havent been up for about 10 years, aside from a visite last year. You guys are more up on the town i grew up in....lol. I remember as a kid, me and a few buddies set up a lemonade stand across the street from the house, on ireland place and ocean ave. That was when the movie just came out and amityville was a mad house...lol. we were on the news cuz we made so much money..of course our parents kept it all, we didnt care ..we were kids..lol

[Victoria Principles]

No, i never met any of the lutzes, i was too young, and i knew kelske from when i was a bartender at jj's tavern, it used to be the witches brew and he would come in every once in awhile for a few beers. I did not know he even died, i havent been up for about 10 years, aside from a visite last year. You guys are more up on the town i grew up in....lol. I remember as a kid, me and a few buddies set up a lemonade stand across the street from the house, on ireland place and ocean ave. That was when the movie just came out and amityville was a mad house...lol. we were on the news cuz we made so much money..of course our parents kept it all, we didnt care ..we were kids..lol

Optotom,

Did you personally know any of the occupants after the Lutz's like the Crommartie's or O'Neills?

[Jacobmarley1]

Optitom, I'm sure when the Amityville-thing became "big," you as a local resident must have taken pictures. Show us, please, in the Amityville Photographs section.

[Victoria Principles]

Optitom, I'm sure when the Amityville-thing became "big," you as a local resident must have taken pictures. Show us, please, in the Amityville Photographs section.

He mentioned he was about 8 when the movie came out. Doubt he would have that many pictures around from then.

[Jacobmarley1]

Not for nothing, but I would have been more inclined to believe Danny and Chris if they had "come out" when they reached the "age of consent." I would have believed them then because they weren't old enough to be cynical and opportunistic.

Now, however, they're - how old? in their 40's? I'm sure that, by now, their "desire" to tell the truth is based on how much they can get paid. I don't blame them for jumping on the bandwagon (a little late, you ask me), but I'm not just going to sit there and believe everything they say.

[Victoria Principles]

Not for nothing, but I would have been more inclined to believe Danny and Chris if they had "come out" when they reached the "age of consent." I would have believed them then because they weren't old enough to be cynical and opportunistic.

Now, however, they're - how old? in their 40's? I'm sure that, by now, their "desire" to tell the truth is based on how much they can get paid. I don't blame them for jumping on the bandwagon (a little late, you ask me), but I'm not just going to sit there and believe everything they say.

Perhaps they wanted to get away from all it all in their early adult years, but found they still had lots of anger inside now is the time to tell their version. It's a form of therapy. They were never allowed to discuss it during their childhood and their parnets tried to shield it from them as adults.

Funny that even though Dan and Chris don't get along, their stories are pretty similar. Like George being heavily into the occult. I believe that aspect because the forces were attached to the family rather than the house. In reading about this, many cases when the forces are tied to a haunted house, they stay there when the occupants flea and the occupants have little or no more troubles. This was not the case of the Lutzes.

[optitom]

I posted pics in the photograph section from about a year ago. DOnt have any when the movie came out..i was too young.

[Jacobmarley1]

I posted pics in the photograph section from about a year ago. DOnt have any when the movie came out..i was too young.

but what about your parents? They never took pictures? What about when you got older, before they changed the appearance of the house in the late 1980s - you never took pictures then, either?

[Victoria Principles]

I posted pics in the photograph section from about a year ago. DOnt have any when the movie came out..i was too young.

but what about your parents? They never took pictures? What about when you got older, before they changed the appearance of the house in the late 1980s - you never took pictures then, either?

Why would this guy's parents take pictures of the house? Most Amityville residents have some self respect and respect for others. They don't want to be part of the show of freaks, n'ver do wells, and the likes.

[Rokiisun]

Yeah, I don't think Amityville residents have ever been all too keen on the house being photographed by bypassers or tourists. I would imagine that unless you had some sort of new addition installed to your exterior, or christmas lights on display, (or snow covering your roof top and garden) that you would want to take a photograph of even your own home. I don't think it's something that many people in the area have thought about doing because they know the house is there, they can see it at any time.