Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

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Brooke Forrester
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Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Brooke Forrester » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm

Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?

I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.

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believer
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by believer » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:39 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.
Brooke....I have to ask....what makes you say that the story relies heavily on the concept that he was possessed?

Six people were brutally murdered in their sleep thirteen months before the Lutz's moved in. That alone is enough of a catalyst for a haunting.

Is it because you have a hard time believing that he could murder his entire family without some type of paranormal influence?

In my opinion, he was selfish p.o.s. who only cared about feeding his drug habit. This is the same person who tried to stage a robbery at his grandfather's car dealership (and failed).

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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Amityville Rock » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:08 pm

I think he was at least influenced and assisted in the commission of the crime thus the deadened sound. What I believe is the force in the house (if it was haunted) at the time was akin to the Ring in Lord of the Rings: it could only control a person directly under extraordinary circumstances but it could certainly increase the darkness within a person already prone to do ill. Ronnie was the perfect mechanism through which that force could work as were all the Defeoes to a lesser degree (save maybe the three youngest children). By every account, they were a dysfunctional family prone to bouts of violence possibly even before they called 108 Ocean Avenue home.
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msmart112
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by msmart112 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:52 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?
I think it was all on him.
Amityville Rock wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:08 pm
By every account, they were a dysfunctional family prone to bouts of violence possibly even before they called 108 Ocean Avenue home.
By EVERY account?

Please do some actual research before making such a ridiculous claim.
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Amityville Rock » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:11 pm

msmart112 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:52 pm
Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?
I think it was all on him.
Amityville Rock wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:08 pm
By every account, they were a dysfunctional family prone to bouts of violence possibly even before they called 108 Ocean Avenue home.
By EVERY account?

Please do some actual research before making such a ridiculous claim.
Bring me one book written by anyone involved with the case in which the Defeoes weren't shown as having major family issues including the seminal work High Hopes The Amityville Murders.

Jeez, people on this site are way too touchy nowadays. Talking with you "experts" is no longer enjoyable. :rotate:
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Wallace
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Wallace » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:44 am

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?

I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.
I beg to differ. To me whether Ronnie was possessed or not has little to no bearing on the legitimacy of the haunting. Assuming that the haunting was legit (I'm on the fence these days), it could be that the activity in the house was caused by the murders. George Lutz believed that Ronnie was influenced by forces in the house, but that is actually a matter of opinion.

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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Wallace » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:33 am

Amityville Rock wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:08 pm
I think he was at least influenced and assisted in the commission of the crime thus the deadened sound. What I believe is the force in the house (if it was haunted) at the time was akin to the Ring in Lord of the Rings: it could only control a person directly under extraordinary circumstances but it could certainly increase the darkness within a person already prone to do ill. Ronnie was the perfect mechanism through which that force could work as were all the Defeoes to a lesser degree (save maybe the three youngest children). By every account, they were a dysfunctional family prone to bouts of violence possibly even before they called 108 Ocean Avenue home.
The more I learned about Ronnie, the more I came to conclusion that he wasn't possessed. I think he had sociopathic tendencies early on and his dad, instead of getting him help decided to remain in denial about it. It also didn't help that his family was dysfunctional. I don't rule out the possibility that there may have been forces in the house that pushed him over the edge or even assisted him in the murders. If this is indeed true, I still think that Ronnie was a ticking timebomb that would have gone off, no matter where he lived.

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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Amityville Rock » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:42 am

Wallace wrote:
Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:33 am
Amityville Rock wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:08 pm
I think he was at least influenced and assisted in the commission of the crime thus the deadened sound. What I believe is the force in the house (if it was haunted) at the time was akin to the Ring in Lord of the Rings: it could only control a person directly under extraordinary circumstances but it could certainly increase the darkness within a person already prone to do ill. Ronnie was the perfect mechanism through which that force could work as were all the Defeoes to a lesser degree (save maybe the three youngest children). By every account, they were a dysfunctional family prone to bouts of violence possibly even before they called 108 Ocean Avenue home.
The more I learned about Ronnie, the more I came to conclusion that he wasn't possessed. I think he had sociopathic tendencies early on and his dad, instead of getting him help decided to remain in denial about it. It also didn't help that his family was dysfunctional. I don't rule out the possibility that there may have been forces in the house that pushed him over the edge or even assisted him in the murders. If this is indeed true, I still think that Ronnie was a ticking timebomb that would have gone off, no matter where he lived.
I agree with you. The Defeoes, especially Ronnie, had major preexisting problems. Their lives could have ended in tragedy no matter where they lived. I think Holzer may have gotten one thing right, Ronnie was a perfect "catalyst" (far better than George or anyone who has lived there before or since) to be used or assisted by the force(s) that may have been present.
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Anarane » Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:08 am

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?
Nope, I don't believe he was possessed. There's not a hair on my head that believes a single word that comes out of his mouth. I'll acknowledge that it's possible he was high af and didn't mean/doesn't remember it, but it was 100% on him.

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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Brendan72 » Wed Jan 06, 2021 9:15 pm

I am usually careful about how I approach this theory. Was he possessed by an outside ethereal negative force? I do not know. It is possible though I am not 100% convinced.

I would also ask if he was 'possessed' or influenced by drugs and could it have contributed towards him committing the murders? He certainly did not act like someone influenced or possessed based on his behavior testified by others from the time the murders took place until he stumbled in to the bar proclaiming his family had been shot.

Would a person under the influence of drugs or some other factor (paranormal or otherwise) calmly shave and shower, give the pretense of going about his normal day going to work? Would he then dump the weapon and other incriminating evidence? Would he then dump more evidence near the car dealership his grandfather owned and father worked at before casually going off to work that day (remember he got there early before it opened and claimed to have had breakfast at a nearby diner)? Would he then go about the charade of concern for his family by calling the house (getting no answer, like he expected), tell everyone he was concerned as a facade?

All these things he did do not indicate a person influenced by drugs or someone who is has sound judgement (he had poor judgement anyway without the drugs and it got him caught eventually). This all points to pre-meditation and the covering up post-crime. This could be the result of demonic influence one could argue but on the face of it he planned this crime for a number of days (since he knew he was going to be caught out for the faked robbery that his father confronted him over and he would not cooperate with the police over).
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by astonio » Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:39 am

Hell no he wasn't possessed. :fp:
"Everywhere I went wuz like uh telephone; no answer."

Brooke Forrester
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Brooke Forrester » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:43 pm

believer wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:39 pm
Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.
Brooke....I have to ask....what makes you say that the story relies heavily on the concept that he was possessed?

Six people were brutally murdered in their sleep thirteen months before the Lutz's moved in. That alone is enough of a catalyst for a haunting.

Is it because you have a hard time believing that he could murder his entire family without some type of paranormal influence?

In my opinion, he was selfish p.o.s. who only cared about feeding his drug habit. This is the same person who tried to stage a robbery at his grandfather's car dealership (and failed).

Going by TAH book, the book focuses on the idea that Ronnie was a victim of the supposed spirits of the Indians, demons, devil worshippers and John Ketchum that supposedly once lived there.

Even when they do the scenes of Francine the medium touring the house, she blames spirits who are buried there and old people who lived there that died as haunting the house.

Even when she brings up that someone had hurt little boys and girls there, she says it was someone who tried to kill themselves there.

In other words, never are the DeFeo spirits or murders indicated as being what gave the Lutzes trouble. George even blows off the bartender who asks if George thinks there is anything bad after the murders and asks “what did Ronnie say about the house before that night”.

So it was clear to me that the premise of the novel is that the land and house were evil long before the murders and none of the negative forces George and Kathy experienced were from the DeFeo killings.

I thought it was odd, but I thought it was a way to protect the DeFeo family survivors and maybe even a lawsuit.

The book also makes a point of trying to say that the police forced Ronnie into a confession. Imo it was clear that George and Anson were sympathetic to Ronnie.

Wallace
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Wallace » Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:04 am

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:43 pm
believer wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:39 pm
Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.
Brooke....I have to ask....what makes you say that the story relies heavily on the concept that he was possessed?

Six people were brutally murdered in their sleep thirteen months before the Lutz's moved in. That alone is enough of a catalyst for a haunting.

Is it because you have a hard time believing that he could murder his entire family without some type of paranormal influence?

In my opinion, he was selfish p.o.s. who only cared about feeding his drug habit. This is the same person who tried to stage a robbery at his grandfather's car dealership (and failed).

Going by TAH book, the book focuses on the idea that Ronnie was a victim of the supposed spirits of the Indians, demons, devil worshippers and John Ketchum that supposedly once lived there.

Even when they do the scenes of Francine the medium touring the house, she blames spirits who are buried there and old people who lived there that died as haunting the house.

Even when she brings up that someone had hurt little boys and girls there, she says it was someone who tried to kill themselves there.

In other words, never are the DeFeo spirits or murders indicated as being what gave the Lutzes trouble. George even blows off the bartender who asks if George thinks there is anything bad after the murders and asks “what did Ronnie say about the house before that night”.

So it was clear to me that the premise of the novel is that the land and house were evil long before the murders and none of the negative forces George and Kathy experienced were from the DeFeo killings.

I thought it was odd, but I thought it was a way to protect the DeFeo family survivors and maybe even a lawsuit.

The book also makes a point of trying to say that the police forced Ronnie into a confession. Imo it was clear that George and Anson were sympathetic to Ronnie.
Yeah, but that doesn't mean that the haunting necessarily hinges on Ronnie being possessed. Yes, George and possibly Jay Anson were sympathetic to Ronnie, but neither of these two were experts in the paranormal (if there is such a thing). It is still a matter of opinion and as Kathy Lutz said before she passed away, opinions don't hold water. I am not even saying with 100% certainty that they are wrong. I am just saying that it is their opinion. I think they were just trying to come up with a theory to explain all the bizarre occurrences in the house. I don't think they meant it as a definitive explanation for everything.

Brooke Forrester
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Brooke Forrester » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm

That could be.

I was watching a show on the paranormal yesterday and it was about a Native American belief in a creature called a Wendigo that possesses people.

Now Holzer believed a Native American spirit was at the root of the haunting. Could it have been a Wendigo possessed Ronnie rather than the Native American chief? (A Wendigo is a supernatural creature).

Brooke Forrester
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Brooke Forrester » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:04 pm

Btw, drugs can definitely be a “demon” in and of themselves so any family with a member who is hooked on them, could end up in serious danger. It doesn’t have to be supernatural.

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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Amityville Rock » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:38 pm

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:01 pm
That could be.

I was watching a show on the paranormal yesterday and it was about a Native American belief in a creature called a Wendigo that possesses people.

Now Holzer believed a Native American spirit was at the root of the haunting. Could it have been a Wendigo possessed Ronnie rather than the Native American chief? (A Wendigo is a supernatural creature).
A Wendigo is certainly possible. A Wendigo is basically an Algonquin demon.
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Amit Y Ville
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Re: Do you believe Ronnie was possessed or no?

Post by Amit Y Ville » Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:28 am

Brooke Forrester wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:12 pm
Do you believe the theory that Ronnie was possessed when he killed his family, or do you think it was all on him?

I’m curious because the haunting story relies heavily on the concept that he was.
I fully believe he was possessed. Doing what he did, there's no way you'd kill your entire family even if drugged. For example I've never felt violent after alcohol and I believe substances don't alter your personality that much. You're still you, it just amplifies your emotions. He also saw the hands pass him the gun. Now my friends have done LSD a few times and they said theres no way you could accurately shoot someone in that state if we're going to assume this was all on Ronnie.

Also in possession the forces somehow managed to keep the family in the same position and managed to surpress the shotgun sound. There's no way nothing supernatural happened.
Amityville fan since 1995, believer of the case, often imitated but never replicated

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