Gentile Amity Week, Night 2
(May 28, 2002)
LOU GENTILE: And welcome back ladies and gentlemen
to Amityville Horror week, night number two. Here with Kevin Mears.
KEVIN MEARS: Good evening everyone
LOU GENTILE: And tonight we're going to be speaking
again with George Lutz, Lorraine Warren and after the second hour
or after the first hour we're going to be speaking with John
Zaffis. And for those of you who missed it uh last night the archive
will be available tomorrow morning of all the shows so far. Actually
I was a little scared to put it up there today. I really was,
KEVIN MEARS: [laughs]
LOU GENTILE: I really was because I mean we literally
got hammered last night and I can only imagine what the archives
are going to promote so we'll see. But anyway tonight on the show
we're going to be speaking with George Lutz. George lived in the
Amityville horror house for 28 days with his family until they
fled in fear. And uh this is his first public radio interview
that uh he has done in over 25 years talking about what has happened
at 112 Ocean Avenue, as well as the first time in radio history
that him and Lorraine have actually talked together about what
happened in the house. Now last night we had heard from Lorraine
who described a lot about what you know about how they got
involved ... what happened when they went into the house ... we're
going to be talking a little bit more about that so let's bring
them both back onto the show ... George and uh and Lorraine, are
Yes we're here!
LOU GENTILE: All right!
And Lee is here, George is here!
LOU GENTILE: And George is here, good ... well,
um, I tell you it's been interesting, there's some things that
I have never heard before um ... Lorraine I guess we can uh ...
let's start with you.
LOU GENTILE: Um, you know what were your feelings,
you know, after you were inside the house at 112 Ocean Avenue
after you had been in there uh after you had experienced going
up the steps and experienced the feelings in the sewing room and
things like that ... actually how many times were you actually
in the house?
LOU GENTILE: Okay, lets ...
I was there twice for long periods of time ... I don't remember
if we went back after, after we with Father Pecararo and the dinner
that night at Kathy's mother's home. I know Father never wanted
Ed to go back in but my recollection is we may have gone back
in the home after that.
The house had ... the house had a far-ranging effect on you. It
wasn't just a haunted home that you visited and you could leave
it and find your peace. You didn't find that peace after you left
that house. It seemed to continue to plague you. You didn't want
to give it recognition, which is what brings it right back to
you, but on the other hand it was just always there like it seemed
to have a way of obsessing your thoughts so that you thought "maybe
if we just take a walk along the beach .. maybe if we take a ride
out in the country," you know?
LOU GENTILE: So you were ...
"Maybe if we go to a movie and think about
something else," but it was ... it just seemed to stay. You really
really had to work at your peace of mind to find it. You really
did. It was an extremely extremely oppressing home.
LOU GENTILE: Now Lorraine we were speaking last
night about how we were going to talk about the after effects
of the Amityville house.
LOU GENTILE: Do you think anything at all followed
There isn't a doubt in my mind that it followed us home. First
of all, that envelope that I picked up at the post office, among
the other things that were in that envelope was a lot of literature
about that priest, Padre Pio, who suffered the wounds of the stigmata
for 50 years of his life. He was a Franciscan priest who lived
in a monastery in Giovanna Rotunda, Italy. A lot of very very
beautiful things have happened as a result of him in the way of
miracles. He had the gift of discernment. He had the gift of bilocation.
And he was just a very incredible person that I always regret
I never met personally.
And so when I opened that envelope, when we got home, there was
a book on his life. And I got in bed and I had the light on and
I was trying to read. Ed had gone out to his office. Now, Lou,
you are familiar with our property, and the office is on the extreme
other end of our property. In other words you have to go from
the bedroom here, down the steps, into the living room, into the
dining room, down the stairs, out through the passageway that
goes partially underground to the museum and to Ed's office. That's
the extreme other end of the house. So I got in bed and at that
time two of our dogs we had two dogs one big dog and one smaller
dog. And they were both here in the bedroom with me. Now the bedroom
is very bright, it's very cheerful, the canopy bed, the whole
bit. We've been here a long time. And when I couldn't concentrate
on the first paragraph of that book I knew something was very,
very wrong. Now Ed isn't here, but all I have to do is push a
little buzzer that's an in-house security so that wherever he
is you know it alerts him. It isn't something that isn't the
same thing that we would use for police or like that.
LOU GENTILE: Right
And I began to hear the sound of like sheet metal, shaking. There's
no sheet metal in the house. No sheet metal at all in the house,
not even in the boiler in the house. And that alerted me, and
then it was like a huge vacuum is the only way I can describe
what it was like. Like a cyclone a wind or energy. And that
came from the lowest level of the house, up the stairs into the
dining room. Now I only moved my eyes. I only moved my eyes. Why
didn't I press that buzzer? I don't know why I didn't ...
LOU GENTILE: Were you experiencing like phantomania?
Phantomania. Yes. And then I looked at them. I could move my eyes.
The one dog was halfway under the desk ruffle on the bed. The
other was over by the bureau. The hair stood right up and they
were like statues. They weren't moving nor were they reacting.
They were terrified! Then as I looked right in the hallway here,
this huge black thing formed. I talked right out loud to Christ.
Right out loud I talked and commanded it, in the name of Jesus
Christ, to leave and go back to where it came from.
I laid here I just laid just right here on the bed. Within not
minutes seconds. Ed did not come up from the lowest level of
the house. Something forewarned him, something would not allow
him to come that way. Ed came out the back door of the studio,
the museum there. As he started to go up the stairs this is
how he described it it was like animals fighting. He had a flashlight
... there were no animals. He came in the kitchen door ... he
came through in the bathroom into the bedroom and laid down on
the covers, on top of the covers, next to me. He put his hand
on my hand and said, "Honey, you have no idea what just happened
to me." And I said, "You have no idea what just happened to me!"
It happened to us independent completely independent of each
other. Completely independent of each other. Me here in the bedroom
and him on the furthest area of our property from this room where
I am right now.
LOU GENTILE: Now had ever, at any time during
your whole career, had anything like that happened in the house?
Things would happen but as I have said, and I probably will always
say, no other case ever effected our personal lives like this
case. No other case at all.
LOU GENTILE: Now George did you ever experience
anything like that?
Certainly not in the same way as Ed and Lorraine. I think that
at that point they were probably considered some kind of a real
threat to what was in the house. When Lorraine was talking about
going back to the house before it's not my recollection that
they ever went back a third time.
Um, but I do remember that dinner and that Ed and Father Ray
you could call it a friendly argument but they discussed much
of that day whether or not Ed should or would go back to the house
It was pretty much by the end of the evening when he "saw the
light," I guess, or agreed that, you know, that this was it
would not be a good healthy idea to go back and have anything
more to do with it.
LOU GENTILE: Mm-hm.
Mh-hm. Now that same night um at Kathy's mother's home when Father
Pecoraro set that date up for us to meet there...
Uh, when we went in we were told we couldn't talk in front of
the children. And we knew enough not to talk in front of the children.
And you remember what transpired and how Ed was getting agitated?
You remember that?
GEORGE LUTZ You called it a form of oppression.
It was! It was a form of oppression. Because it was out of character.
And he wanted ... it was important for Ed to know exactly what
happened to them in that house in their words. And yet Ed knew
that the more somebody would talk and discuss it, the more recognition
they would give and cause themselves more problems. But all was
Now we're having dinner, we're not discussing the case at all.
We did not have those sheets back the proof sheets of all those
photographs that we taken in the house. We did not have them back.
No way whatsoever did we know anything about that one photograph
that showed what appeared to be the image of Padre Pio looking
at me. We didn't have anything with us. Nobody even knew of that
nothing. And there was like a stillness at dinner. And Father
stood to slice the bread the St Joseph's bread. He looked directly
at me talk about intimidating looked directly at me and said
"Who do you think brought you out of that house?" ... and I said
with all the respect in the world, "God, I guess, Father." He
said "Padre Pio, right?" And I said back to him, "How did you
know?" And he said, "He told me so."
LOU GENTILE: Wow.
I'll never forget that, Lee. Never, never, never forget that.
LOU GENTILE: Now you know, Lorraine, you have
dealt with literally tens of thousands of cases.
LOU GENTILE: And you know you have experienced
things that most people would think are complete science fiction
Yes, I guess so.
LOU GENTILE: [laughs] ... and you know, how could
you, when you talk about you know the Amityville case being that
close to home and effecting you that much, and no other cases
that you have ever done have come close, does that lead you to
believe there was just something just so overpowering about that
house that made it unique above everything else?
Yes it did make it very unique. That's why, that is why Ed and
I aside from our love and respect for Lee and Kathy and the family
aside from that that's why we have always fought so hard for
their honor regarding that case, and become so enraged by these
so-called skeptics. Who are they? What are they? What was their
role? What did they have to do with a house with the family? They
read a book? You evaluate a case on a book?
LOU GENTILE: Mm-hm ... well that's what it seems
like it is, I mean it seems like most of the people who don't
believe it are the ones that say, "Well, on page 211 it says this
and did that really happen?" And you know...
KEVIN MEARS: They want the book to be perfect.
That's the problem.
Exactly! And we all know that, you know, no matter what book it
is they're all not perfect!
There is literary license taken in any piece of literature any
piece of literature at all, there is some literary license that
is taken. And it was! And it was. And there was certainly more
than dramatic license taken in the movie. Had they, had the movie
actually portrayed what really happened to the Lutz's it would
have been far more terrifying than what they portrayed in the
I feel it would have been harder to understand, though, too. I
think it would have been harder to translate in a movie um, accurately...
LORRAINE WARREN: But we sure tried our hardest
for American International Pictures when...
Not for American International Pictures, for the general public
to understand what really happened in that home when we did the
... well we did more than a national tour, we went out of the
country, too. But, um, it's one of the most-discussed cases. It's
the one case that even if you tried to avoid it even today at
a university, it's going to come up. If you don't bring it up
at some part of your program then they want to know about it during
question and answer period. But it is always something that...
We got to the point, I'll tell you one thing, before I forget
it, we'll never discuss the case on a plane, in a car, in any
mode of transportation at all. We will never discuss it.
LOU GENTILE: Good idea! [laughs] Very good idea!
LOU GENTILE: Oh man!
I don't know if I have ever thought about that that way Lorraine
but I don't think that I do discuss it at all in an airplane or
...in a car.
LOU GENTILE: Well I don't think it would be too
much of a good idea.
Well, it stems a lot from the incident that happened in that car.
Now Ed is an excellent driver. I had stressed it last night. And
he is. He's an excellent driver. Always has been. And we had left
a school in Pennsylvania, and a section of 84 was just like opening.
It was brand new it was real nice. And um we were on the road,
it was a sunny day. There was no wet pavement, there was no frost.
Certainly no ice or snow was on there. And we were going along
and first we came I always mix these up one was the Lord's
Valley and one is the Promised Land, and I always forget what
comes first. But anyway first of all I believe it was the Lord's
Valley that came first. That was an exit. And Ed said, "Wow! Look
hon, the Lord's Valley!" And the next exit was the Promised Land.
Ed made a statement: "Even The Amityville Horror couldn't
get us here." [Lorraine scoffs] That was not the smartest thing
to do at that given time.
LOU GENTILE: No.
And when we had left our hotel room that morning, Ed's miraculous
medal, that he always wears, was on the nightstand and it had
all knots in it. So I had had it on my lap and I was undoing all
the knots in it, and I finally got the last one and I put it over
Ed's head and down into his shirt ... and put it on him. And it
was just moments later. Now there is a tractor trailer that is
a distance behind us, and he is the person who is really witness
to what is going to happen. The car is brand new, and it is heavy
car, a very, very heavy car. And all of a sudden this car starts
to go out of control and makes the circles. Now the truck that's
behind us speaks into his radio ... or his whatever ... what's
LOU GENTILE: A CB?
You know what I mean? The tractor trailers, what is it they have
that they can ...
LOU GENTILE: A CB?
A CB ... okay! He speaks into it. And he's relating what he is
witnessing about this car out of control on the highway ahead
of him. Then we hit the guard rail and we go right over the guardrail
and we go down the embankment backwards. There's all stones down
forty feet below us. Ed in that car spoke right out loud to the
Blessed Mother, like she was sitting there next to him. Spoke
right out loud to her. When we got down to the bottom of the hill,
the car was on an angle and Ed had to kick the door open in order
to get me out and then crawl out himself. As we started to go
up that embankment there were two men standing at the top of the
embankment. And the one guy said, "Is there anybody alive in that
car?" And you really had to pinch yourself to make sure that you
were alive. That man was a State Police Intelligence officer who
was driving the opposite direction on 84, and heard this trucker
relating what was happening. He got off the next exit and came
around and they were at the top of the hill. We thought that was
the end of our car and we got up to the top of the hill. We were
all right. I mean we were a bit shaken, but I mean we were all
right. And we waited for them to tow the car up and we thought
for sure that that car was totalled.
But when they pulled it up there was a scratch, like a little
scratch ... like a little dent, underneath the carriage of the
car where we hit the guard rail going over. Even these men could
not believe what they were looking at. They shook their heads.
We had to drive that car home that night. Our lecture for that
evening was cancelled, we had to cancel it. It would have been
just totally impossible for us to speak that night. That's the
kind of thing that happened to us, that had affected us to such
a strange ... well more than a strange affect. You become aware
of just how strong that personification of evil can be and careful
of the recognition that you give.
LOU GENTILE: Now Lorraine what I wanted to add
to that, was, you know, most people would think: "well most of
that was just probably a coincidence, blah blah blah!" I wanted
to share something with somebody about an experience we had, myself,
you and Ed. And I know you'll remember this but we were driving
back from Pennsylvania somewhere and we had a brand new car, remember
LOU GENTILE: And we were talking about the little
doll. I'm not going to say the name.
No, please don't!
LOU GENTILE: [laughs] Okay, sorry! Because I
have enough problems already when I say that name on the air but...
And we were talking about that doll. And we had a brand new car
that had less than, what, three thousand miles on it? Something
Yes. It was brand new
LOU GENTILE: Brand new! And we started talking
about that damn doll and what you tell me what happened?
LOU GENTILE: Alright [laughs]
Go ahead! [laughs] You...you said it Lou!
LOU GENTILE: All that [Laughs] All of a sudden,
we're sitting there driving, everything's been fine. All of a
sudden the transmission just like disappears. It's just like I'm
not driving anymore.
Yes it did!
LOU GENTILE: You remember that?
Yes I do!
LOU GENTILE: And I'm like, "no I don't believe
this!" We're out in the middle of nowhere.
[laughs] We sure were!
LOU GENTILE: And if I remember correctly for
some odd strange reason ... after that transmission had just completely
died after we were talking about that.
LOU GENTILE: Then we actually coasted down that
hill for like
We coasted down the hill and got right off the exit!
LOU GENTILE: [laughs more] Exactly! It was like
it was meant to be!
KEVIN MEARS: You know what? After all the things
that have happened on the show after naming that doll on the air,
I absolutely believe that story! [laughs]
KEVIN MEARS: [indistinct] to all of our listeners!
LOU GENTILE: But that's something right along
the same lines.
Yes it is.
LOU GENTILE: Things ... and you know?
That's what happens where recognition is concerned. Now the case
itself ... Lee is absolutely right when he said that the reason
were affected was because of the threat that we were to what was
in the house, in recognizing what was there.
LOU GENTILE: Mm-hm
And I know I don't mean to limit that threat to just you and
Ed, I think that you had the resources, the friendships, the,
um, resources of people to organize something that, with enough
people, might have really challenged its ability to stay there.
LOU GENTILE: Believe me if anybody has the resources
it's Ed and Lorraine!
Right. I don't mean it to...to...I don't want Lorraine to think
that I always thought that just her and Ed could deal with it,
because I think we all know better than that...
No of course not!
But I think they did have in the back of their minds a game plan
of something they could have put together to deal with that, and
one thing would have been a mass, and...
Uh-huh ... and an exorcism of the home.
Yes and that kind of idea would have been a real threat. It would
have been perceived as a real threat by the house. I have always
considered the house at that point in time to be very intelligent.
Oh of course you mean what was there?
Yes. Very smart.
The house, itself, was not what was in the house was!
Yes. And I've always found it so hard to believe unless ... unless
something has been done that none of us are aware of. And we don't
know that. I mean something of a spiritual nature may have been
done in that home. Because how could anybody find peace in that
house? And how could you live in a home without peace? Because
peace is so important, and you certainly moved in as a loving
couple! And if love conquers all, it was still too powerful for
We were newlyweds...
Yes! I know! That's for sure! That's definitely for sure! And
these innocent little children, and that poor dog! How old did
that dog ... how old did Harry live to be?
Harry lived until sometime in 1981 I think it was, or 1980.
Oh, goodness! Wow! My goodness.
I was remembering the first night that we were at Kathy's mom's
house, and everybody was kind of high-strung, and Harry was still
pretty much a puppy ... um
We had him tied to the piano, which was an upright piano in Kathy's
mom's living room.
And he would keep getting up and kind of turn in a circle and
then lie down again. Well by the end of the night he had dragged
the piano halfway across the room just in his sleep.
Kind of in just desperation to move and...
I don't think he got over his dreams for quite a while...
No. The poor dog!
He was pretty unhappy! He was happy to leave there.
Oh I bet he was!
He did try to hang himself the first time that we were moving.
When we were moving into the house there was a dog-run there ,and
we had tied him to the dog-run because we knew he had a rather
creative ability to jump over fences. Well he managed to jump
over the fence and then hang himself on his chain, so we had to
lift him back in and then shorten the chain so he couldn't do
Oh my God! Oh, good Lord!
He really was a good dog.
Oh he was! He was a very good dog! Yes he was, I do remember that
for sure. What a very very good dog he really was.
LOU GENTILE: Now...
When we got to California and when we got off the airplane, we
had taken a red-eye so we had arrived very early in the morning
at about 4.30-5.00am and the rental car that we had ordered did
not show up yet, because we needed a station wagon for all the
luggage that we had, and the kids and we had the dog. And we had
um, taken the dog to the vet and gotten drugs for him for the
flight, and gotten him the biggest cage we could find that they
would allow on the airplane. And American Airlines had treated
him really well, but when he came out of the airport in San Diego
he was walking across the street with the three kids holding on
to the chain ... he was just kind of walking sideways. I can still
remember Kathy and I across the street watching the kids with
the dog and just being relieved that we were there and we were
out of New York.
He was walking sideways he was like a drunken dog after that
flight. But he was sure happy to be back with everybody again.
Oh God! Yes. He was happy to have his feet on the ground too!
In a place other than New York.
LOU GENTILE: What I want
WARREN: I'm certain of that!
And we then went out, and we stayed with you folks for a while
at the ... now that was in ... that was in San Diego ... that
was in Mesa ... let's see... Come on Lee, I can't think of the
name of the town, the village or ...
I think we were living in Tierrasanta at the time.
No, there was some Mesa in the name. Oh I wish I could remember
and I can't remember
We lived in La Jolla, and then we lived in Tierrasanta, and then
we lived in Carlsbad or La Costa.
Oh Mesa, Arizona!
Oh that one ... that's what I'm thinking! [laughs]
Okay, that was— [indistinct]
But no, we were never no, I'm sorry, we were never in Mesa,
Arizona, no. We were never there. You're right about ... yeah
it was in California where we were.
That would have been in 1978, '77-'78, and
That's when we went out for dinner and we were sitting next to
a couple that um-he was a fisherman.
And um, Lou this is kind of off-topic but it's really not. We
were sitting next to this older couple than all of us and we got
to talking with them and asked him what he did and he a sea Captain,
a fisherman, that travelled up and down on the coast and his wife
would travel to meet him in different cities. And I asked him
what he did while he was out at sea alone. And he said he would
read his Bible, and he said that rather sheepishly, like it wasn't
the kind of thing he talked about publicly.
And we got to talking and I asked him if he had ever gotten to
seeing anything out there in the ocean that he never talked about
usually to anyone. And then he told us about the lights that he
saw come out of the sky and go underneath the water and then
Ohhhh! I remember that.
And his wife was looking at him with this amazed face that this
was the kind of thing he had never spoken of with her.
LOU GENTILE: Wow!
GEORGE LUTZ For some reason he sat there after
meeting Ed and Lorraine Warren, the ghost hunters, and decided
to go ahead and spill the beans on things he had seen out there
that he had never shared with anyone else. It was a very interesting
Oh my God! And if I'm not mistaken, I think Ed shared back with
him experiences during ... Ed's ... periods of time at sea during
World War II.
Yes, that's when I first heard the story of his court-martial.
[laughs] Yes, his court martial! Yeah right! Oh yes I can remember
that well. That ship went to Normandy, hon.
They didn't quite make it.
That's where the ship went.
LOU GENTILE: Now what I wanted to bring up, ah
we have about twenty minutes or so. I want to know, and I'm sure
the listening audience wants to know, how [clears throat] excuse,
me ... how Stephen Kaplan got involved with this whole thing?
Oh do we have to mention his name?
LOU GENTILE: Well ... unfortunately there is
a lot of people there that want to know exactly he got involved
with this because
From our standpoint or from Lee's standpoint?
LOU GENTILE: If both of you can elaborate on
how he got involved. I mean
LORRAINE WARREN: All right, he got involved first
with Lee before us.
LOU GENTILE: Okay, now George...
He was like an angry dog that wouldn't let go.
LOU GENTILE: [chuckles]
KEVIN MEARS: Yeah, I've seen his book. I've got
to admit, it's so much of a blatant personality attack that he
keeps whining as "the truth"! It's sickening.
What about what Ed did? Ed was on ... Ed would put that guy down
so many times ... I mean some of the fabricated stories he would
come up with! And finally Ed said to him, "I'll tell you what,
Steve Kaplan!" he said, "You bring all of your evidence. I want
to see all of your reports. You bring them all to me and we'll
meet and we'll do a radio show together on this." This was going
to be a show they were going to do together in Waterbury, Connecticut,
here. And he never ever showed up. Never! Ed ... Ed put that guy
down so many times ... he publicly apologized to us and then would
turn around like some angry little dog biting at your ankles and
come back again. He was ... he was something else again that guy.
LOU GENTILE: Now George how...
Can I get in on this answer? [chuckles]
LOU GENTILE: Yeah that's what I want to find
out, I mean how did he become involved? I mean I'm sure he didn't
I called him on February 19th, 1976. That was my first phone call
with him, and he told me at that point about I'm sorry my first
phone call with him was on the 17th and he had told me that
he was affiliated with the university of the State of New York
at Stonybrook, and that he had taught there, and he gave me a
number of different qualifications that he had, and then I spent
some time trying to check those out. And I called the state university
at Stonybrook and I had asked them about him and they had never
heard of him.
LOU GENTILE: [chuckles]
On the 18th was an article in, I can't remember, either the Long
Island Press or Newsday, that, where he was quoted talking about
the case, talking about the house. On the 19th I called him and
I recorded the conversation. And no one's ever heard this conversation
before but I'll read you a transcript of it if you wish?
LOU GENTILE: Sure!
Ah, Kaplan answers the phone and he says: "Oh, George how are
you?" My answer is "Fine how are you?" Kaplan says: "Okay." And
then there's an unintelligible remark. My answer to him is: "We're
going to cancel out Saturday." Because we had made arrangements
for him to come that Saturday and investigate the house. Kaplan
said: "Yes I know that." My answer was: "The very last thing we
wanted was any publicity and I thought I had made that clear with
you, and you went ahead and made a release to the newspapers which
is a circus." Kaplan says to me: "Which newspaper is that?" My
answer to him: "It's in the papers tonight, now we didn't tell
anyone of it, so I have no idea how it got in the papers other
than through you" Kaplan's answer to me was: "Which paper is this?"
My answer to him is: "Well it's in the Long Island Press tonight
and was in the Newsday yesterday." Kaplan's answer: "Well it can't
be through me, then, because I had contact with the newspapers.
They had called me. In fact ABC. I don't know if you knew about
it? ABC and Channel 5 called me. I don't know how they even got
my name. But they called my organization and they wanted an interview."
His organization? He was the organization!
Yeah. Right. "In fact, ABC said they'd make me a star to come
out there, and I said 'no thank you', and Channel 5, I didn't
call back. And Long Island Press called me and said they wanted
to find out if I was indeed one of the organizations involved
in it. And I said 'No, and if we are it will be off the record,
and we're not going to discuss the case. If you want to talk about
ghosts fine'..." Pause. And there's a series of question marks
there in the transcript, "'... still talk about psychic phenomena
to the newspapers and we talk about cases that we handled on Long
Island. We are a known organization that does deal with psychic
phenomena, so I can't turn the press down." My answer to him at
this point was, "Well you are quoted in the press tonight as saying
you are involved in the case, and that you would be working over
at the house. And in the Newsday yesterday or Long Island Press,
I'm not sure which, you are quoted as saying you would be there
this Saturday. The problem arises because it ends up being a circus
over there and that's the last thing that we want." Kaplan: "I
don't know how they got that story, it's very possible that I
contacted one of my members and maybe it happened, I don't I
know that I didn't..."'
LOU GENTILE & KEVIN MEARS: [laughing]
That's the biggest joke in the world!
LOU GENTILE: It sounds like somebody was either
smoking crack or something like that
That wasn't popular then.
KEVIN MEARS: Lorraine?!
[unintelligible] what he was smoking. He was a vampirologist.
[unintelligible] in the end, um, his remark to me is: "We will
pull out if that's what you wish, no problem."
LOU GENTILE: Hmm... So that's how it all started?
Yes. That's the last time I ever spoke to the man.
KEVIN MEARS: I wanted to ask you, Lorraine, um
I have to tell you something before you ask me that question.
KEVIN MEARS: Sure.
This is weird! This is really weird. It's sad, I didn't wish,
I certainly would never have wished the man any, uh, any horrible
illness or death. But Ed had, let me see now, was it, did he die
in '85 or '95?
LOU GENTILE: I think it was '95.
All right, so Ed had bypass surgery Ed had the heart attack
in '85. Ed had the bypass surgery and he died, uh, Kaplan died
at that same time. Ed would always say, if he ever died during
his bypass surgery and turned around and seen Kaplan coming behind
him, he would always say, "Don't you think, Steve, that you carried
this just a little too far?" In other words, if they both met
at that time. But do you realize that he died quite suddenly from
a heart condition, the very same day that Ed had bypass surgery?
Triple bypass surgery?
I had no idea of that.
KEVIN MEARS: Wow!
Yes he did. The exact same day he had that happen to him. So what
I'm sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you, Lou.
LOU GENTILE: No, that was Kevin.
Honest I didn't.
LOU GENTILE: That was Kevin. Go ahead Kevin.
KEVIN MEARS: Yeah, that's me. No, that was a
very good piece of information. I don't mind being interrupted.
I was going to ask if you could comment a little on some of the
various titles he's claimed for himself over the years, along
with I know he called himself a parapsychologist, and a doctor,
and he you had just mentioned vampirologist.
LOU GENTILE: Ed would...
KEVIN MEARS: Was there anything else?
Ed has a whole loose leaf book whole loose leaf folder downstairs
in his office of all the things that he was not. Everything that
Ed was able to prove regarding the doctorate that came from Pacifica
University, which was um
LOU GENTILE: Mail order?
GEORGE LUTZ A non-traditional school without
A "non-traditional school without walls," is his quote [unintelligible]
Exactly! And it was a debunked thing. He was a vampirologist...
I mean there's a whole thing on him. The guy worked out of a one-bedroom
apartment. Everything. That was the organization! That was the
organization, this guy! And then when he finally put together
this book which I have not read, but I'm certain that Ed has a
copy of it in his library, um, he died I think before it was even
LOU GENTILE: Yeah, that's true.
Yeah, he did.
He was a very angry man.
But he carried on such a vendetta that was so extreme and so,
he made some of the most stupid statements.
LOU GENTILE: Oh I know. And then he...
...that were so totally unfounded. Now one thing that I want to
say before we have to cut that I think is important and that
is that it would come up, is how we would ever document that photograph
that was taken you know in the Amityville home regarding the image
of Padre Pio. Well what had happened was when we finally got to
see that photograph, I prayed to Padre Pio. I would talk to Padre
Pio. I would say: "If that was really you in that photograph,
then I want to know about you, I want to know more about you".
And if it is not, then I also want to know. And it was incredible
the things that happened. That wasn't the only time he made his
presence known to us. It always seemed to happen during very controversial
cases, and certainly Amityville was because of the skeptics and
then um, the Smurl case in Pennsylvania, also made his presence
Now, we at a university in Dayton, Ohio, and Ed showed that photograph,
I think it was for the first time. And he got bad press from it.
And he said he was going to take that photograph out of the presentation
because the press said that Ed showed a photograph of a man who
looked like a priest. But Ed did never say that it was. He did
say that it did resemble Padre Pio. And it did.
So, then from Dayton we went out to L.A. We lectured there to
a few universities. And this one day, on a Sunday, the man's name
is Joe Maggio I don't know if Mr Maggio is still alive, but
he was an executive with one of the television studios, and a
close friend to Ed and I. We had met him through a very close
friend in Beverly Hills. The next morning this is on a Saturday
the next morning he said to me "Would you like to go to Mass
with me at the Church of the Good Shephard?" And I said, "Oh I've
always wanted to go to Mass there." And, so for some reason Chuck,
the man whose guest home we were staying in, this friend of ours,
and Ed, did not go to that Mass. And we went ... and we were coming
out of Mass, and nothing was mentioned about Padre Pio, because
I didn't even know this man that well. He had become a good friend,
but not at that point, I really did not know him that well. And
he said to me, "Did you know Padre Pio?" And I said "I knew of
him." That's how I answered. I said "Why?". And he said "Well
there's a priest", he said, "just down the coast. You're going
to be speaking at La Jolla tonight?" And he said, "There's a priest
just down the coast who served with him in Italy. His name is
Father Negre. And he is at a Catholic Boy's School, just in residence
there right now.
So when we got back to where we were staying where Ed was, I called
to see if I could speak to this priest. And I did. And I didn't
tell him anything about a photograph. All I said is "Father I
understand that you had served with Padre Pio, and I would love
to meet you. My husband and I are going to be speaking at a school
not far from where you are, and we wondered if it would be possible
to meet you?" And he said he had an hour free that afternoon,
which I don't feel was a coincidence, and he met with us. And
we went in. He spoke very broken English and at one point, Ed
said "Father, can I show you a slide that I would like you to
see?" Not telling him what it was. And Ed went out to the car,
and got his projector and put it in, and showed it on the wall
in the area where this priest was living at the school. And he
knelt down, he blessed himself, and he said "Padre Pio." And I
said, "Father why would he appear to me?" And he looked, and he
said, " You must have asked him to." And from that time on I found
out much about Padre Pio. I would find myself in situations where
I was to receive his rosary beads, where I'd receive a first-class
relic of his, and in all, Padre Pio has played a very important
role in our life since Amityville.
LOU GENTILE: Now, Lorraine before we let you
go, um, first I'd like to thank you very much for coming on and
sharing everything that happened at Amityville.
LOU GENTILE: I do appreciate it. And you know
I would like to say that you know there aren't many people out
there, or there are people out there that believe that you guys
fabricate evidence and all that other stuff.
LOU GENTILE: No. Well, Lorraine I know that first-hand
that you don't.
No way. We would never have been able to have a career that went
over fifty some years. There is nobody that could ever poke holes
in any of our evidence, any of our cases. We would never have
remained university speakers for almost thirty four years if we
didn't actually bring the facts as they occurred and not fabricate
one solitary thing.
LOU GENTILE: That's true. That's absolutely true.
And you know, I know from, you know, even what I've been taught,
and what I've been told and from what I've seen, that you guys,
there's no way that you fabricate anything.
LOU GENTILE: And you know, you guys are the real
deal, you're the best at what you do, and you're in my opinion
the best in the world at investigating this and, you know, bringing
peace to a lot of people. So, you know anybody out there who thinks
that you know, you guys are fabricating it's just not, it's
just not true.
No it is not. It's all based on our faith.
LOU GENTILE: Yep.
And our protection, and we feel that all these years that we have
been guided in doing what we do and we have been protected because
we have been doing what God wants us to do. And we believe that
KEVIN MEARS: Thank you for coming on the show
as well, Lorraine, from me.
Thank you very much for having me. And Lee, it was a pleasure
to be on with you.
Well I miss you, I don't want you to go away now, so why don't
you just stay?
LORRAINE WARREN: Thank you ... thank you! I'll
never go away, believe me. I'll never go away.
LOU GENTILE: All right well Lorraine I want to
thank you very much ... it's been a pleasure. Now one other thing
that I want to mention, at al the lectures and um, and for members
who join the New England Society for Psychic Research, there are
these tapes who talked about Amityville, and these were recently
converted from tapes to CD's, is that correct?
LOU GENTILE: Okay how can people, uh order these?
Uh, they can order them by sending it to the New England Society
for Psychic Research, the NESPR, PO Box 41, Monroe, Connecticut
06468, or they can go on our website at www.warrens.net.
LOU GENTILE: Okay and how much are the CD's?
LOU GENTILE: Okay and uh, those CD's they were
converted from tape to CD.
LOU GENTILE: They were done very nice, professional.
LOU GENTILE: And you should definitely check
these out and for further information you can go to Lorraine's
well, Ed and Lorraine's website at www.warrens.net and also
there's a link on our website that will take you there, and it's
definitely something that you don't want to miss.
LOU GENTILE: All right Lorraine, thank you very
Thank you! Pray for Ed.
LOU GENTILE: Yeah!
KEVIN MEARS: We will!
LOU GENTILE: I always do, Lorraine! Always do.
LORRAINE WARREN: Pray for Ed. And thank you,
and God bless you all!
KEVIN MEARS: God bless, Lorraine.
LOU GENTILE: All right, goodnight! Well George
um, we're going to put you on hold and we're going to get back.
Actually you're going to call on the other number right now.
LOU GENTILE: And we're going to take a short
commercial break. Actually it's going to be about seven or eight
minutes [laughs] So anybody who wants to go out and have a smoke
and go eat, or drink or whatever, go do what you gotta do, and
we're going to be back in about ten minutes and uh, George I'm
going to hang up on you now so you can call in. [chuckles]
LOU GENTILE: But it was definitely, definitely
a pleasure, I mean you know here we had it first-hand you know
from Lorraine Warren and George Lutz of what really happened at
112 Ocean Avenue, how Kaplan played into this, and I think it's
a very you know coming first-hand from the people who were there.
I mean there's a lot of people out there that might want to write
books about it, they might want to talk about it, that don't really
know diddley-squat about what happened at the haunting of 112
Ocean Avenue, which is The Amityville Horror.
Um, so you know I mean you might as well listen in while we talk
more with George Lutz, and we're going to be bringing on John
Zaffis, uh when we come back to The Lou Gentile Show
and also I wanted to mention this that uh, I'm going to be having
an announcement about what I'm going to be appearing at which
is going to blow your mind.
this point after the break the system goes down and they
have to reconvene for the following night]